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Civil forfeiture is an outgrowth of the war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism). Just like NSA spying is an outgrowth of the war on te

Civil forfeiture is an outgrowth of the war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism). Just like NSA spying is an outgrowth of the war on terror. I doubt we will be able be able to end civil forfeiture until we end the war on drugs.

RIMR 5y ago
The war on drugs relies on civil forfeiture, and the practice could be ended with a single law. That would effectively end the war on drugs.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  > That would effectively end the war on drugs. Given that the war on drugs existed before the ramp up of civil forfeiture, I doubt that. But I’m down to find out if you can get that single law passed - my point was the perception of drug dealers rich off drug money are the reason there’s not a lot of support for ending civil forfeiture.
ch4s3 5y ago
> Just like NSA spying is an outgrowth of the war on terror A lot of the framework and the beginnings of domestic spying really started after the Oklahoma City Bombing. The underpinnings of the Patriot Act were originally passed then. > war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism) I think this is an oversimplification of the history of the war on drugs. Racism is certainly a facet, but the association of drugs use with counter culture and the anti war movement are just as important. Soaring crime rates in the 70s and 80s are also related to the war on drugs. There were also cultural and political incentives to ratchet it up in the name of :doing something". Average people of every racial and economic background were concerned about drugs in the early 80s. Boiling it down to any one thing really does a disservice to complexity of the issue. Radley Balko's "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"[1] has a lot of good historical information on the topic. [1]https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/B094492F4R https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...
- thethethethe 5y ago
  > A lot of the framework and the beginnings of domestic spying really started after the Oklahoma City Bombing. The underpinnings of the Patriot Act were originally passed then Not really sure what you are trying to say here. Your tone suggests that you are refuting OP's point when you are actually reinforcing it (the Oklahoma bombing was a terrorist attack albeit domestic)
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    I think it's interesting and worth pointing out that the trend began before the "War on Terror", which in my experience people often don't know. My point was to sort of say, yes but let's look a little deeper as the history is interesting and important.
  - redblacktree 5y ago
    We didn't really start calling it "The War on Terror" until after 9/11/2001. That's my guess as to where that comment is coming from.
    - ch4s3 5y ago
      Yeah, the "War on Terror" picked up and expanded upon prior art so to speak. Here's Biden talking about the history of the Patriot Act in 2002[1]. You'll note the 1994 bill he mentions actually came after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which I'd neglected to mention earlier. [1] https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-w...
- kennywinker 5y ago
  If you’re saying that the “war on drugs” was motivated by any less than 50% racism you lost me. Yes, it was also useful in marginalizing anti war and counter cultural movements, but that was a side-benefit. The war on drugs was started in 1971 - and was a driving force behind that “soaring crime rate”
  - 5y ago
tbihl 5y ago
>Civil forfeiture is an outgrowth of the war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism) Where did you get this ridiculous counter-factual? As a group, Black people,by fact of being concentrated in poor and urban areas, where drug violence did its greatest destruction to the public realm, were some of the biggest proponents for the war on drugs.[0] This spanned all levels of government, from community organizers in New York City to the Congressional Black Caucus. In a surprising turn of events, sometimes mistakes are just mistakes. [0] https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-championed-strict-drug-laws-they-now-seek-dismantle/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-champio...
- kennywinker 5y ago
  Asking for something to be done / law and order in your community is different from asking for a “the war on drugs”. Black communities had problems, the gov delivered racism and called it law & order. Anyway, here’s a source if you’d like to hear more about the racist underpinnings of the war on drugs https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-media-2017-04-14 https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-med...

RIMR 5y ago

The war on drugs relies on civil forfeiture, and the practice could be ended with a single law. That would effectively end the war on drugs.

kennywinker 5y ago
> That would effectively end the war on drugs. Given that the war on drugs existed before the ramp up of civil forfeiture, I doubt that. But I’m down to find out if you can get that single law passed - my point was the perception of drug dealers rich off drug money are the reason there’s not a lot of support for ending civil forfeiture.

ch4s3 5y ago

> Just like NSA spying is an outgrowth of the war on terror A lot of the framework and the beginnings of domestic spying really started after the Oklahoma City Bombing. The underpinnings of the Patriot Act were originally passed then. > war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism) I think this is an oversimplification of the history of the war on drugs. Racism is certainly a facet, but the association of drugs use with counter culture and the anti war movement are just as important. Soaring crime rates in the 70s and 80s are also related to the war on drugs. There were also cultural and political incentives to ratchet it up in the name of :doing something". Average people of every racial and economic background were concerned about drugs in the early 80s. Boiling it down to any one thing really does a disservice to complexity of the issue. Radley Balko's "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"[1] has a lot of good historical information on the topic. [1]https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/B094492F4R https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Ameri...

thethethethe 5y ago
> A lot of the framework and the beginnings of domestic spying really started after the Oklahoma City Bombing. The underpinnings of the Patriot Act were originally passed then Not really sure what you are trying to say here. Your tone suggests that you are refuting OP's point when you are actually reinforcing it (the Oklahoma bombing was a terrorist attack albeit domestic)
- ch4s3 5y ago
  I think it's interesting and worth pointing out that the trend began before the "War on Terror", which in my experience people often don't know. My point was to sort of say, yes but let's look a little deeper as the history is interesting and important.
- redblacktree 5y ago
  We didn't really start calling it "The War on Terror" until after 9/11/2001. That's my guess as to where that comment is coming from.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    Yeah, the "War on Terror" picked up and expanded upon prior art so to speak. Here's Biden talking about the history of the Patriot Act in 2002[1]. You'll note the 1994 bill he mentions actually came after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which I'd neglected to mention earlier. [1] https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-wrote-patriot-act https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4876107/user-clip-joe-biden-w...
kennywinker 5y ago
If you’re saying that the “war on drugs” was motivated by any less than 50% racism you lost me. Yes, it was also useful in marginalizing anti war and counter cultural movements, but that was a side-benefit. The war on drugs was started in 1971 - and was a driving force behind that “soaring crime rate”
- 5y ago

tbihl 5y ago

>Civil forfeiture is an outgrowth of the war on drugs (which was itself an outgrowth of anti-black racism) Where did you get this ridiculous counter-factual? As a group, Black people,by fact of being concentrated in poor and urban areas, where drug violence did its greatest destruction to the public realm, were some of the biggest proponents for the war on drugs.[0] This spanned all levels of government, from community organizers in New York City to the Congressional Black Caucus. In a surprising turn of events, sometimes mistakes are just mistakes. [0] https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-championed-strict-drug-laws-they-now-seek-dismantle/ https://www.wnyc.org/story/312823-black-leaders-once-champio...

kennywinker 5y ago
Asking for something to be done / law and order in your community is different from asking for a “the war on drugs”. Black communities had problems, the gov delivered racism and called it law & order. Anyway, here’s a source if you’d like to hear more about the racist underpinnings of the war on drugs https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-media-2017-04-14 https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/episodes/on-the-med...