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Actually, if we drop the Victorian mindset that people are innately criminals, we might look to the social and economic causes - massive unemployment amongst bl

Actually, if we drop the Victorian mindset that people are innately criminals, we might look to the social and economic causes - massive unemployment amongst black youth, closure of youth services, almost complete political disenfranchisement - for something of an explanation of the riots.

ig1 15y ago
I think "we want free stuff" is a pretty good explanation for the vast majority of the looting, and "smashing stuff is fun" for the destruction. There are plenty of places with high-unemployment, political disenfranchisement, etc. which haven't turned to rioting. While it may have been a contributing cause (if you've got less to risk you might be more willing to get involved in looting, etc.) to say it was the primary reason is insulting to the million of law-abiding individuals from struggling economic and social backgrounds.
- nodata 15y ago
  Your answer is a diversion. You changed the reason to "these people want free stuff". That doesn't help. Why aren't YOU looting and rioting and "wanting free stuff"? We're back to the same question again. Why these people? Why this group?
  - gaius 15y ago
    This is a "deprived" area of London, but the question is, what are they being deprived of? What is it that they had before, that has been taken away? What do other parts of London have that they do not? If you want an answer, it's that successive governments gave them free stuff, everything from their housing up, and now they can't really tell the difference between stuff you just get and stuff you're free to take anymore.
    - nodata 15y ago
      You don't need to have lost something to be deprived. You can be deprived of chances that others have.
      - gaius 15y ago
        Which are what exactly? Unless I'm mistaken the people of Tottenham get free educations to the age of 18 same as everyone else in the UK. They also have as good a public transport infrastructure as anywhere else and can work anywhere in London.
        nodata 15y ago
        Well that's what we're trying to find the answer to: what's different about this group of people?
        gaius 15y ago
        And I told you. They've been given so much they can't now see why they can't just take anything they want. Seriously, you don't fight for freedom/education/"a chance" by nicking a 50" plasma TV. And doing so is an insult to people like, for example, the Libyans and Egyptians who really did - and do - fight for something worthwhile.
        nodata 15y ago
        But that's no answer at all - all of this "free stuff" you talk about is available to other groups who did not loot.
        rimantas 15y ago
        They probably also had different upbringing, and grew with mindset that society owns them something. Why? Who knows. Just because. It simmilar where I am. People don't bother to go to elections and then complain to no end how bad tha parlament is as if that parlament was somehow forced onto us…
deleted 15y ago
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mseebach 15y ago
So what's the mindset called where any behaviour, no matter how egoistical and anti-social, is excused and blamed on something else (often a government entity is implied)? And when can we drop that? I'm not saying that being jobless in this economy and being politically disenfranchised is exactly a recipe for success, but where do we draw the line between criminal behaviour and legitimate grievances. There are a lot of people with undesirable job situations who feel politically disenfranchised, but who somehow manage to live inside the law. I wonder what will happen to their feeling of disenfranchisement if looters are given a pass?

ig1 15y ago

I think "we want free stuff" is a pretty good explanation for the vast majority of the looting, and "smashing stuff is fun" for the destruction. There are plenty of places with high-unemployment, political disenfranchisement, etc. which haven't turned to rioting. While it may have been a contributing cause (if you've got less to risk you might be more willing to get involved in looting, etc.) to say it was the primary reason is insulting to the million of law-abiding individuals from struggling economic and social backgrounds.

nodata 15y ago
Your answer is a diversion. You changed the reason to "these people want free stuff". That doesn't help. Why aren't YOU looting and rioting and "wanting free stuff"? We're back to the same question again. Why these people? Why this group?
- gaius 15y ago
  This is a "deprived" area of London, but the question is, what are they being deprived of? What is it that they had before, that has been taken away? What do other parts of London have that they do not? If you want an answer, it's that successive governments gave them free stuff, everything from their housing up, and now they can't really tell the difference between stuff you just get and stuff you're free to take anymore.
  - nodata 15y ago
    You don't need to have lost something to be deprived. You can be deprived of chances that others have.
    - gaius 15y ago
      Which are what exactly? Unless I'm mistaken the people of Tottenham get free educations to the age of 18 same as everyone else in the UK. They also have as good a public transport infrastructure as anywhere else and can work anywhere in London.
      - nodata 15y ago
        Well that's what we're trying to find the answer to: what's different about this group of people?
        gaius 15y ago
        And I told you. They've been given so much they can't now see why they can't just take anything they want. Seriously, you don't fight for freedom/education/"a chance" by nicking a 50" plasma TV. And doing so is an insult to people like, for example, the Libyans and Egyptians who really did - and do - fight for something worthwhile.
        nodata 15y ago
        But that's no answer at all - all of this "free stuff" you talk about is available to other groups who did not loot.
        rimantas 15y ago
        They probably also had different upbringing, and grew with mindset that society owns them something. Why? Who knows. Just because. It simmilar where I am. People don't bother to go to elections and then complain to no end how bad tha parlament is as if that parlament was somehow forced onto us…

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

mseebach 15y ago

So what's the mindset called where any behaviour, no matter how egoistical and anti-social, is excused and blamed on something else (often a government entity is implied)? And when can we drop that? I'm not saying that being jobless in this economy and being politically disenfranchised is exactly a recipe for success, but where do we draw the line between criminal behaviour and legitimate grievances. There are a lot of people with undesirable job situations who feel politically disenfranchised, but who somehow manage to live inside the law. I wonder what will happen to their feeling of disenfranchisement if looters are given a pass?