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Don't Joke <about most things> is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as

Don't Joke <about most things> is a good advice in general for management and leadership. You have to assume people will read into most of the stuff you say as you are their primary information conduit for anything related to workplace.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
While I certainly agree that jokes are dangerous, they're also a key way humans form social connections! I do think a sense of humor is important for building a rapport with colleagues.
- ludamad 5y ago
  As management especially, joke clearly. There is far more weight on you to not mislead than for the "keep a serious atmosphere" that some might take it as
  - q1w2 5y ago
    You have to be careful. Relationships sour, and nothing is funny when read in court. One thing is for certain, NEVER put jokes or sarcasm in writing. I've read way too many of those in court.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- AmericanChopper 5y ago
  Many ordinary social interactions have become sins recently. Saying anything that could be interpreted as offensive poses a very real risk to your career, the list of potentially offensive things is incredibly long, and gets longer with each passing moment as novel outrages pop up in all corners of the world. You can still be kind, empathetic and polite to everybody you work with. But avoiding authentic personal relationships at work is very sensible, along with having very clear personal boundaries. Normal colleagues can form cliques of people they trust, but it’s not a great outcome for management to be participating in that, even though that’s what usually happens.
  - anon7725 5y ago
    I don’t know why this is being downvoted - it’s good advice. You should adopt a “work persona” that elides the riskier elements of your true self. “Bring your true self to work” and other modern workplace nonsense is risky advice to take seriously. It’s mostly a coded communication that does not mean what it appears to on the surface.
  - HelloNurse 5y ago
    But inappropriate jokes about firing people and the like are not "ordinary social interactions" with aspects "that could be interpreted as offensive", they are an objectively oppressive and distressing behaviour that even the least upset subordinates of such a manager recognize as inappropriate.
    - AmericanChopper 5y ago
      I’d agree that this is usually true. But the comment I was replying to is about jokes in general.
- option_greek 5y ago
  For peers at same level in their own setting that is indeed true. When with people that report to you, might not be a good idea because, one can't tell if even the laughter is genuine or obligated to. There are some instances where it might potentially help - when your team is under stress (real or perceived). Light humor (if well done), might alleviate some of the tension in the room and let them focus on work.
tnvaught 5y ago
I would refine this advice to "sarcasm is never appropriate in an uneven power dynamic." Whether it's in the context of parenting, teaching or managing people. As a go-to form of humor, I've learned this the hard way. It's not actually helpful for folks to hear the hilarious monologue going on in my head when I'm feeling salty. There _are_ legitimately relationship-building funny things to say, but they're usually self-effacing and, at best, complementary to others.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  I might further distinguish between sarcasm towards others versus sarcasm towards oneself. Most of my sarcasm is self-effacing, and I think that's generally okay with adults. (Less-so children.)
- q1w2 5y ago
  Having read many many court documents, I couldn't agree with you more. I have seen literally hundreds of comments/jokes/emails/phone call recordings/etc taken out of obvious context and submitted as evidence - often to the detriment of the innocent. In the serious environment of a lawyers office or court room, or in the intentionally biased environment of social media - NOTHING IS FUNNY. All jokes are insensitive at best, or are at worst evidence of malicious intent. Over the years, in my opinion, I have personally this phenomenon getting significantly worse. We advise all our clients just not to make jokes, unless you're in private with very close friends/colleagues you trust. Never EVER make a joke or sarcastic comment in writing. Anything that can be misinterpreted, WILL be misconstrued, often intentionally, when any relationship sours. In general, if you are or might become under any scrutiny whatsoever, golden rule #1 is: Shut the fuck up.
sergiotapia 5y ago
I led a team of about 65 engineers at my previous job. One of things that became apparent at around the 20 mark was that rumors spread so quickly and a comment I didn't think twice about crystallized into "marching orders" very quickly. Make jokes, it helps build rapport with people you spend so much time with! But be careful about the message you convey, people will run wild with it overnight.
throwaway98797 5y ago
The greater the risk the better the laugh. Depends on what you are going for.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

While I certainly agree that jokes are dangerous, they're also a key way humans form social connections! I do think a sense of humor is important for building a rapport with colleagues.

ludamad 5y ago
As management especially, joke clearly. There is far more weight on you to not mislead than for the "keep a serious atmosphere" that some might take it as
- q1w2 5y ago
  You have to be careful. Relationships sour, and nothing is funny when read in court. One thing is for certain, NEVER put jokes or sarcasm in writing. I've read way too many of those in court.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AmericanChopper 5y ago
Many ordinary social interactions have become sins recently. Saying anything that could be interpreted as offensive poses a very real risk to your career, the list of potentially offensive things is incredibly long, and gets longer with each passing moment as novel outrages pop up in all corners of the world. You can still be kind, empathetic and polite to everybody you work with. But avoiding authentic personal relationships at work is very sensible, along with having very clear personal boundaries. Normal colleagues can form cliques of people they trust, but it’s not a great outcome for management to be participating in that, even though that’s what usually happens.
- anon7725 5y ago
  I don’t know why this is being downvoted - it’s good advice. You should adopt a “work persona” that elides the riskier elements of your true self. “Bring your true self to work” and other modern workplace nonsense is risky advice to take seriously. It’s mostly a coded communication that does not mean what it appears to on the surface.
- HelloNurse 5y ago
  But inappropriate jokes about firing people and the like are not "ordinary social interactions" with aspects "that could be interpreted as offensive", they are an objectively oppressive and distressing behaviour that even the least upset subordinates of such a manager recognize as inappropriate.
  - AmericanChopper 5y ago
    I’d agree that this is usually true. But the comment I was replying to is about jokes in general.
option_greek 5y ago
For peers at same level in their own setting that is indeed true. When with people that report to you, might not be a good idea because, one can't tell if even the laughter is genuine or obligated to. There are some instances where it might potentially help - when your team is under stress (real or perceived). Light humor (if well done), might alleviate some of the tension in the room and let them focus on work.

tnvaught 5y ago

I would refine this advice to "sarcasm is never appropriate in an uneven power dynamic." Whether it's in the context of parenting, teaching or managing people. As a go-to form of humor, I've learned this the hard way. It's not actually helpful for folks to hear the hilarious monologue going on in my head when I'm feeling salty. There _are_ legitimately relationship-building funny things to say, but they're usually self-effacing and, at best, complementary to others.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
I might further distinguish between sarcasm towards others versus sarcasm towards oneself. Most of my sarcasm is self-effacing, and I think that's generally okay with adults. (Less-so children.)
q1w2 5y ago
Having read many many court documents, I couldn't agree with you more. I have seen literally hundreds of comments/jokes/emails/phone call recordings/etc taken out of obvious context and submitted as evidence - often to the detriment of the innocent. In the serious environment of a lawyers office or court room, or in the intentionally biased environment of social media - NOTHING IS FUNNY. All jokes are insensitive at best, or are at worst evidence of malicious intent. Over the years, in my opinion, I have personally this phenomenon getting significantly worse. We advise all our clients just not to make jokes, unless you're in private with very close friends/colleagues you trust. Never EVER make a joke or sarcastic comment in writing. Anything that can be misinterpreted, WILL be misconstrued, often intentionally, when any relationship sours. In general, if you are or might become under any scrutiny whatsoever, golden rule #1 is: Shut the fuck up.

sergiotapia 5y ago

I led a team of about 65 engineers at my previous job. One of things that became apparent at around the 20 mark was that rumors spread so quickly and a comment I didn't think twice about crystallized into "marching orders" very quickly. Make jokes, it helps build rapport with people you spend so much time with! But be careful about the message you convey, people will run wild with it overnight.

throwaway98797 5y ago

The greater the risk the better the laugh. Depends on what you are going for.