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We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in ur

We’ve recently started deploying expensive e-cargo bikes for our food delivery coop[1] to try to whittle down our carbon footprint and increase efficiency in urban areas. We have a similar problem of trying to protect our delivery assets (though not nearly as bad as the plight of the gig workers in the article given that our workers can count on the coop and also because Montreal is generally safer than NYC). Our threat vectors are a bit different in that the bikes are more likely to be snatched when the rider is dismounted and in a building for a pickup or delivery. We’ve been experimenting by keeping a GPS in the frame and triggering something akin to a car alarm when the bike starts moving too significantly while the rider’s phone isn’t in the vicinity of the bike. Our primary challenge has been finding the ideal way to lock the bikes while dismounted. The best chain locks are too unwieldy to use for the pace our couriers move at. Wheel locks were interesting but would end up breaking spokes when couriers would inevitably ride them while still locked. We’re currently giving folding locks a go. Open to suggestions if anyone has ideas or experience with other solutions. [1] https://radish.coop https://radish.coop

Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
>Our primary challenge has been finding the ideal way to lock the bikes while dismounted. The best chain locks are too unwieldy to use for the pace our couriers move at. Wheel locks were interesting but would end up breaking spokes when couriers would inevitably ride them while still locked. We’re currently giving folding locks a go. Open to suggestions if anyone has ideas or experience with other solutions. Possibly something like the Velo Guard steering locks? They lock the steering in a fixed position (making the bike impossible to ride). https://www.velo-guard.ch/en/ https://www.velo-guard.ch/en/
- Gaessaki 5y ago
  I like how lightweight and discreet this is. We’ll try it out. Thanks for the share!
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
Something like this: https://www.vanmoof.com/news/en-GB/166517-vanmoof-launches-electric-bike-that-doesn-t-need-a-lock https://www.vanmoof.com/news/en-GB/166517-vanmoof-launches-e... Not easy to retrofit though.
JackMcMack 5y ago
I'm aware of no off the shelf solution, but this does sound like a problem that can be solved with electronics. The motor controller could do electric braking if the rider's phone isn't in the vicinity of the bike. This would mean you can't push the pedals, but the wheels will still turn without resistance. If you forget to unlock it, you won't break the spokes, and there's no sudden halt, so you can still manually and safely break. You could still run off with the bike on foot of course. But maybe if the pedals are blocked by the motor, you can use the standard lock without breaking the spokes?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Social problems probably can’t be solved by electronics.
- Gaessaki 5y ago
  We’ve increasingly been looking at electronics as you’ve suggested. I like the idea of tying the controller to the rider’s device. It would require some hacking with our current setup. One of the big risks is that the cargo bikes are worth stealing with a truck or pickup. The resell value is great and even if the bike is inoperable, the parts can be easily dismantled and sold off. I worry that the tactics will shift more towards that direction as the bikes themselves get harder to ride off on.
  - deivid 5y ago
    sounds like the old tilt sensor from arcade games could be useful? start blasting an alarm if the rider is not around and the bike shakes
    - Filligree 5y ago
      There are bike locks which do basically that. The only way to disarm them is to use the key, or pick them, and few thieves have the skill to do the latter.
  - Filligree 5y ago
    You can have a GPS unit installed in the frame, e.g. from PowUnity. That won’t stop anyone stealing it, but it should vastly increase the chances of recovery.
Swenrekcah 5y ago
If the delivery industry can properly solve the problem of bike theft it would probably be the best thing it can possibly do for the climate and city life worldwide.
spodek 5y ago
The work of Ela Bhatt in India in the 70s may be relevant. She organized women who did odd jobs like delivering this and mending that, despite having no one entity to negotiate against/with, and created the Self-Employed Women's Association, SEWA, which continues to operate today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ela_Bhatt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ela_Bhatt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Employed_Women%27s_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Employed_Women%27s_Associ... From a systemic perspective (which may run counter to your goals), I believe the best solution, which I know won't soon happen in a nation like the US that values comfort and convenience over health and nature, but it's to return to home cooking over deliveries. While it would decrease these jobs, it wouldn't hurt the economy. People who saved delivery money would still spend it, just not on these dangerous jobs. It makes sense from a systemic perspective. We say we need immigrants to do the jobs Americans don't want to do, but I believe that view reverses cause and effect. Rather than having job vacancies first and need people second, when people divorced from the actual work see lots of cheap labor, they find ways to use it that no one would choose for themselves. We once had butchers, grocers, and tailors. Then big box stores drove them out of business and replaced them with slaughterhouses and such, incredibly dangerous jobs increasing the disparity of wealth. I see reversing that trend as helping restore safety and dignity to the work and a middle class to the nation. My result: I don't think I've ever had something home delivered besides the post office, UPS, and Fedex, which don't have these time limits. Shopping for myself and cooking save time and money, plus I meet and form relationships with my counterparts at the coop, farmers market, and CSAs. I pollute a lot less too, taking two years to fill a load of garbage since I avoid packaging.
karlkloss 5y ago
Forget folding locks. They're too easy to break. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0 I think that bike theft should be handled the way that horse theft was handled in the wild west.
- Gaessaki 5y ago
  Yeah, I’ve been following LPL’s videos and it seems like securing a bike with a lock from even a moderately determined attacker seems to be a hopeless task.
  - blamazon 5y ago
    All you have to do is make the bike slightly less attractive for theft than the next one, which is not too hard if you often park next to other bikes.
noja 5y ago
Make your bikes uglier.
- yardie 5y ago
  Unfortunately, this is the honest answer. The best bikelocks in the world can be cut with a $100 cordless angle grinder and $20 carbide blade. I watched the CCTV footage of the thief walk up with a Dewalt multitool and hack through my $50 U-lock in 30 seconds. The same technology that can propel a Tesla to 100km/h in under 5 secs is also the same technology in new cordless powertools. And the theives steal those too! Your only real defense is for them to have something better to steal. Make your bike uglier!
  - xxpor 5y ago
    For ebikes, removing the battery might be an option. Without it it's a (in my case) 60 lb beast that isn't good for much of anything. And it's very obvious that it's missing, so you wouldn't accidentally try to take it and then have to search for what's missing. It pops out in 5 seconds with a car-style key.
coremoff 5y ago
removable handlebars? (and have a sling or belt or something to sling it over your back temporarily)
rmah 5y ago
because Montreal is generally safer than NYC Crime in Montreal is actually quite a bit higher than in NYC. In 2019, with data from Statistics Canada (for Montreal) and the FBI (for NYC)... Montreal's violent crime rate (1140 per 100k people) is double that of NYC (571 per 100k people). The property crime rate in Montreal (2,222 per 100k people) is similarly higher than NYC (1,460 per 100k people). Sources: https://www.areavibes.com/montr%C3%A9al-qc/crime/ https://www.areavibes.com/montr%C3%A9al-qc/crime/ and https://www.areavibes.com/new+york-ny/crime/ https://www.areavibes.com/new+york-ny/crime/
- jollybean 5y ago
  International comparisons for crimes with vague definitions are hard, and I don't think those numbers are effectively comparable. Have a look [1]. 'Murder' is a straight forward thing to define. Someone gets killed. But 'assault' is a very vague thing. According to that list 'Iceland' is a crime ridden country with overall crime 4x more than the US, even though murder in the US is more than 10x greater? More like reporting, charges, definitions, data collection is different. That said: Montreal is slightly sketchy for petty crime, and some places getting drunk and fighting is normal (UK/Nordic) and in some places, they use knives (i.e. Wales, Scotland). [1] https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-crimes-per-1000 https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-...
  - nerdponx 5y ago
    Maybe things like "felony manslaughter" also complicate classification.
sudosysgen 5y ago
How about a lock through the disk brakes, operated electronically? What you're doing is quite interesting as someone else in the Montreal area :)

Ichthypresbyter 5y ago

>Our primary challenge has been finding the ideal way to lock the bikes while dismounted. The best chain locks are too unwieldy to use for the pace our couriers move at. Wheel locks were interesting but would end up breaking spokes when couriers would inevitably ride them while still locked. We’re currently giving folding locks a go. Open to suggestions if anyone has ideas or experience with other solutions. Possibly something like the Velo Guard steering locks? They lock the steering in a fixed position (making the bike impossible to ride). https://www.velo-guard.ch/en/ https://www.velo-guard.ch/en/

Gaessaki 5y ago
I like how lightweight and discreet this is. We’ll try it out. Thanks for the share!

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

Something like this: https://www.vanmoof.com/news/en-GB/166517-vanmoof-launches-electric-bike-that-doesn-t-need-a-lock https://www.vanmoof.com/news/en-GB/166517-vanmoof-launches-e... Not easy to retrofit though.

JackMcMack 5y ago

I'm aware of no off the shelf solution, but this does sound like a problem that can be solved with electronics. The motor controller could do electric braking if the rider's phone isn't in the vicinity of the bike. This would mean you can't push the pedals, but the wheels will still turn without resistance. If you forget to unlock it, you won't break the spokes, and there's no sudden halt, so you can still manually and safely break. You could still run off with the bike on foot of course. But maybe if the pedals are blocked by the motor, you can use the standard lock without breaking the spokes?

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Social problems probably can’t be solved by electronics.
Gaessaki 5y ago
We’ve increasingly been looking at electronics as you’ve suggested. I like the idea of tying the controller to the rider’s device. It would require some hacking with our current setup. One of the big risks is that the cargo bikes are worth stealing with a truck or pickup. The resell value is great and even if the bike is inoperable, the parts can be easily dismantled and sold off. I worry that the tactics will shift more towards that direction as the bikes themselves get harder to ride off on.
- deivid 5y ago
  sounds like the old tilt sensor from arcade games could be useful? start blasting an alarm if the rider is not around and the bike shakes
  - Filligree 5y ago
    There are bike locks which do basically that. The only way to disarm them is to use the key, or pick them, and few thieves have the skill to do the latter.
- Filligree 5y ago
  You can have a GPS unit installed in the frame, e.g. from PowUnity. That won’t stop anyone stealing it, but it should vastly increase the chances of recovery.

Swenrekcah 5y ago

If the delivery industry can properly solve the problem of bike theft it would probably be the best thing it can possibly do for the climate and city life worldwide.

spodek 5y ago

The work of Ela Bhatt in India in the 70s may be relevant. She organized women who did odd jobs like delivering this and mending that, despite having no one entity to negotiate against/with, and created the Self-Employed Women's Association, SEWA, which continues to operate today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ela_Bhatt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ela_Bhatt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Employed_Women%27s_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Employed_Women%27s_Associ... From a systemic perspective (which may run counter to your goals), I believe the best solution, which I know won't soon happen in a nation like the US that values comfort and convenience over health and nature, but it's to return to home cooking over deliveries. While it would decrease these jobs, it wouldn't hurt the economy. People who saved delivery money would still spend it, just not on these dangerous jobs. It makes sense from a systemic perspective. We say we need immigrants to do the jobs Americans don't want to do, but I believe that view reverses cause and effect. Rather than having job vacancies first and need people second, when people divorced from the actual work see lots of cheap labor, they find ways to use it that no one would choose for themselves. We once had butchers, grocers, and tailors. Then big box stores drove them out of business and replaced them with slaughterhouses and such, incredibly dangerous jobs increasing the disparity of wealth. I see reversing that trend as helping restore safety and dignity to the work and a middle class to the nation. My result: I don't think I've ever had something home delivered besides the post office, UPS, and Fedex, which don't have these time limits. Shopping for myself and cooking save time and money, plus I meet and form relationships with my counterparts at the coop, farmers market, and CSAs. I pollute a lot less too, taking two years to fill a load of garbage since I avoid packaging.

karlkloss 5y ago

Forget folding locks. They're too easy to break. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0 I think that bike theft should be handled the way that horse theft was handled in the wild west.

Gaessaki 5y ago
Yeah, I’ve been following LPL’s videos and it seems like securing a bike with a lock from even a moderately determined attacker seems to be a hopeless task.
- blamazon 5y ago
  All you have to do is make the bike slightly less attractive for theft than the next one, which is not too hard if you often park next to other bikes.

noja 5y ago

Make your bikes uglier.

yardie 5y ago
Unfortunately, this is the honest answer. The best bikelocks in the world can be cut with a $100 cordless angle grinder and $20 carbide blade. I watched the CCTV footage of the thief walk up with a Dewalt multitool and hack through my $50 U-lock in 30 seconds. The same technology that can propel a Tesla to 100km/h in under 5 secs is also the same technology in new cordless powertools. And the theives steal those too! Your only real defense is for them to have something better to steal. Make your bike uglier!
- xxpor 5y ago
  For ebikes, removing the battery might be an option. Without it it's a (in my case) 60 lb beast that isn't good for much of anything. And it's very obvious that it's missing, so you wouldn't accidentally try to take it and then have to search for what's missing. It pops out in 5 seconds with a car-style key.

coremoff 5y ago

removable handlebars? (and have a sling or belt or something to sling it over your back temporarily)

rmah 5y ago

because Montreal is generally safer than NYC Crime in Montreal is actually quite a bit higher than in NYC. In 2019, with data from Statistics Canada (for Montreal) and the FBI (for NYC)... Montreal's violent crime rate (1140 per 100k people) is double that of NYC (571 per 100k people). The property crime rate in Montreal (2,222 per 100k people) is similarly higher than NYC (1,460 per 100k people). Sources: https://www.areavibes.com/montr%C3%A9al-qc/crime/ https://www.areavibes.com/montr%C3%A9al-qc/crime/ and https://www.areavibes.com/new+york-ny/crime/ https://www.areavibes.com/new+york-ny/crime/

jollybean 5y ago
International comparisons for crimes with vague definitions are hard, and I don't think those numbers are effectively comparable. Have a look [1]. 'Murder' is a straight forward thing to define. Someone gets killed. But 'assault' is a very vague thing. According to that list 'Iceland' is a crime ridden country with overall crime 4x more than the US, even though murder in the US is more than 10x greater? More like reporting, charges, definitions, data collection is different. That said: Montreal is slightly sketchy for petty crime, and some places getting drunk and fighting is normal (UK/Nordic) and in some places, they use knives (i.e. Wales, Scotland). [1] https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-crimes-per-1000 https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Total-...
- nerdponx 5y ago
  Maybe things like "felony manslaughter" also complicate classification.

sudosysgen 5y ago

How about a lock through the disk brakes, operated electronically? What you're doing is quite interesting as someone else in the Montreal area :)