3 ms·

> This assumes the worker isn't doing something valuable during the day. I worked some night shifts to pay for college. Well yes, people need to sleep. You can

> This assumes the worker isn't doing something valuable during the day. I worked some night shifts to pay for college. Well yes, people need to sleep. You can sleep during the day, or at night, but you still need to sleep at some point. If a student is burning their energy working overnight, they aren't getting the most out of college, that's a waste of resources in a given system.

indymike 5y ago
> If a student is burning their energy working overnight, they aren't getting the most out of college, that's a waste of resources in a given system. Being debt free after leaving college was worth the lost sleep.
- iso1210 5y ago
  You're looking at it from an individual perspective rather than treating mankind as a system to optimise. It would be better as a whole for you to have completed the course either faster or better, and progress onto more productive things. Reality of course is that you can't optimize a global society of 7 billion individual thinking people with different abilities, wants, hopes, needs, indeed you can't even come up with a measure of what you are trying to optimize, but in my view mankind should have eliminating non-producive work as a goal. I've just filled in forms to register at the local GP surgery. I had to fill them in on paper, putting name and address multiple times on different forms, this will all be transcribed by one of the receptionists into a computer. This is waste. My health care system is fairly good with eliminating waste (compared with say the US system), but it's something that should be optimised -- it would have been more efficient for both me and the data entry person if I could have just typed in the data into an online form (complete with autofill), rather than this archaic method from the 1980s. Having inefficient systems is bad. On the London Underground 20 years ago you had to queue up at a ticket office or machine to buy a ticket. Now you just walk through the barrier with your phone. 100 years ago you would tell someone behind a counter what you wanted and wait around while he went and got it, 50 years ago you walked through the shop and did that yourself, and now with some stores you scan simply pick up what you want and walk out without even paying. The total work done reduces each time, and that's a net win for the species. Reducing tedious unfulfilling work should be the goal, and a higher minimum wage incentivises that.
  - ThePadawan 5y ago
    Funny aside: I 100% agree with you on the GP thing, but I find it hilarious how you hope to even move away from paper entry. Here in Switzerland, it still seems to be a 50/50 if you get to fill out a form, or simply hand the receptionist your insurance card which has your national insurance ID on a Magstripe. Usually, all they ask then is "Is your address at Example St still current?"
  - indymike 5y ago
    > You're looking at it from an individual perspective rather than treating mankind as a system to optimise. I only have my life that I can optimize. The rest of humanity is above my paygrade.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      Fortunately as society we organise into units which allow us to become more than the sum of our parts through laws and taxes and infrastructure, and in my view societies goal should be reduce tedious unfulfilling work.

indymike 5y ago

> If a student is burning their energy working overnight, they aren't getting the most out of college, that's a waste of resources in a given system. Being debt free after leaving college was worth the lost sleep.

iso1210 5y ago
You're looking at it from an individual perspective rather than treating mankind as a system to optimise. It would be better as a whole for you to have completed the course either faster or better, and progress onto more productive things. Reality of course is that you can't optimize a global society of 7 billion individual thinking people with different abilities, wants, hopes, needs, indeed you can't even come up with a measure of what you are trying to optimize, but in my view mankind should have eliminating non-producive work as a goal. I've just filled in forms to register at the local GP surgery. I had to fill them in on paper, putting name and address multiple times on different forms, this will all be transcribed by one of the receptionists into a computer. This is waste. My health care system is fairly good with eliminating waste (compared with say the US system), but it's something that should be optimised -- it would have been more efficient for both me and the data entry person if I could have just typed in the data into an online form (complete with autofill), rather than this archaic method from the 1980s. Having inefficient systems is bad. On the London Underground 20 years ago you had to queue up at a ticket office or machine to buy a ticket. Now you just walk through the barrier with your phone. 100 years ago you would tell someone behind a counter what you wanted and wait around while he went and got it, 50 years ago you walked through the shop and did that yourself, and now with some stores you scan simply pick up what you want and walk out without even paying. The total work done reduces each time, and that's a net win for the species. Reducing tedious unfulfilling work should be the goal, and a higher minimum wage incentivises that.
- ThePadawan 5y ago
  Funny aside: I 100% agree with you on the GP thing, but I find it hilarious how you hope to even move away from paper entry. Here in Switzerland, it still seems to be a 50/50 if you get to fill out a form, or simply hand the receptionist your insurance card which has your national insurance ID on a Magstripe. Usually, all they ask then is "Is your address at Example St still current?"
- indymike 5y ago
  > You're looking at it from an individual perspective rather than treating mankind as a system to optimise. I only have my life that I can optimize. The rest of humanity is above my paygrade.
  - iso1210 5y ago
    Fortunately as society we organise into units which allow us to become more than the sum of our parts through laws and taxes and infrastructure, and in my view societies goal should be reduce tedious unfulfilling work.