9 ms·

Why Figma Wins (2020)

61 points by conanxin 5y ago

NL807 5y ago
Figma is just awful. They do everything they shouldn't from a perspective of building a rendering engine for graphics design. Not only that, but the endless round trips of assets to the server is so unnecessary when everything could be managed locally.
- samcheng 5y ago
  Figma has facilitated improved product management productivity via easy collaboration between designers, managers, developers, copywriters, and others. I don't really care about the tool's performance optimization or lack thereof! It's the team's performance I care most about. If the designers were complaining about Figma's performance, I'd see your point, but they like it too...
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't rush into the comments with a reflexive reaction to the generic topic or something in the title. That's not a substantive contribution and it makes for a much less interesting thread. It would be much better to react to something specific in the actual article. Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to do this when the thread is fresh. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole%20-pigment&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
philliphaydon 5y ago
AHHH I can't stags Figma, it's UX is terrible, it's so difficult to understand what's going on. I feel like I need a PHD to use it.
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't rush into the comments with a reflexive reaction to the generic topic or something in the title. That's not a substantive contribution and it makes for a much less interesting thread. It would be much better to react to something specific in the actual article. Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to do this when the thread is fresh. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole%20-pigment&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    I skim read about 50% of the article and replied saying I don’t like it because the UX sucks. Because it does suck. We use it at work and it only creates more problems than it tries to solve.
    - dang 5y ago
      Ok, but the article is more narrowly scoped than that. Generic-indignant reactions lead to low-quality threads, so please don't post those.
      - luffapi 5y ago
        Instead of bugging people who don’t like Figma (on topic btw), how about moderating white supremacists off the site like this guy? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28592947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28592947 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=skocznymroczny https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=skocznymroczny
        dang 5y ago
        If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. You can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com. Please don't post off-topic complaints like this, which we may not even see. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... Also, would you please stop this ideological rampage? You've been posting about almost nothing else for days now. HN is a wide-open forum with millions of users all over the world. It's inevitably going to get the full spectrum of posts. Picking a few bad ones and acting like those define either the community or the moderators is a huge non sequitur, even though I know it's emotionally convincing. This is a classic cognitive bias (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). Everyone does it, and the people you disagree with are every bit as convinced that the site is a "hotbed" or (favorite term) "cesspool" of your side. The truth is that: (1) extreme posts are a tiny portion of what shows up here and we moderate them when we see them (see first paragraph above), and (2) HN has a spectrum of ideological views because the world has a spectrum of ideological views. You can't expect a community as large and as widely distributed as this to differ much from the general population.
baybal2 5y ago
What is Figma?
dang 5y ago
Discussed at the time: Why Figma Wins - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23584954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23584954 - June 2020 (181 comments)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ahmedfromtunis 5y ago
I'm on Linux, so the only way to use Figma is in the browser. Everytime I use it, I'm astonished at what can be done with a web app — and makes me wonder: why didn't Adobe make a web version of Illustrator or inDesign?
- _boffin_ 5y ago
  I'd love to see web apps handle multi-gigabyte file workloads that have the ability to dynamically link in other assets that can be just as large.
- sonofhans 5y ago
  It's a perfect example of the Innovator's Dilemma -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma I'm not trying to shill for the book, but it coined the phrase and elucidates it well. Roughly: new technology often doesn't enable much functionality that legacy technology already does. This is seen as an advantage by both sides. In truth, it's often an advantage for new tech, because new tech has advantages which old tech lacks. WRT Adobe, there are certainly huge swaths of their product plans which are impossible with web-based tech. So web-based tech looks crappy to them. They've downplayed and ignored the advantages of web-based tech. By the time these advantages start biting them in the market they're a decade behind, and will have to build expertise in new tech in order to catch up. Most companies cannot do this.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Actually there is unofficial Figma-linux flatpak/snap package which is functional. But it is like other "local" web-apps for Windows and Mac. I hate SaaS model and I hate online only approach. But since pandemic started this is practically the only option for collaborative design. We use Sketch/Affinity for things that we want to have available offline and recreate in Figma for hand-off and communication. If Figma had offline workflow it will evaporate Sketch and other tools from marketplace. But actually this will not happen. It is cheaper for them to work on one unified code-base. Actually Framer also moved to this direction.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
achow 5y ago
Repasting couple of comments from previous posts around Figma. They need to be repeated.. - Love Figma! However, their enterprise licence is $45/month ($540 annually)! That is ludicrous for the functionality that the app provides. - Figma is a closed eco system. You cannot export the files and open them in other app for editing. Sketch is open, and Figma takes advantage of that - it imports and converts to Figma, but will not allow other way round. It is one way traffic with Figma.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  45/month for an enterprise seems like nothing. How many editors could a company have? If every editor costs ~50k (I'm making this up, I suspect it's more), 540 annual is a blip.
  - achow 5y ago
    Compare $45/month to $33/Month (Photoshop). Edited the price & feature info. Photoshop has 20+ years of development behind it, tons of feature across different domains (UI, photography, animation to print production), cutting edge Visual Computing features.., plus 1TB cloud storage. https://www.adobe.com/plans-fragments/modals/business/modals/photoshop/master.html https://www.adobe.com/plans-fragments/modals/business/modals... The key word is $45/month for the functionality it provides. [Disclaimer - NOT A fan of Adobe and trying to get away from the shackles of it.]
    - ichik 5y ago
      So you're comparing enterprise license of Figma with individual license for Photoshop? That's a tad unfair seeing as individual Figma license is free.
      - achow 5y ago
        Thanks. Updated the enterprise price info for Photoshop ($33 vs for personal $25)
    - 5y ago
shp0ngle 5y ago
This article seems almost entirely devoid of actual content or insight? Yes, people love collaborative editing. I don't need 20 paragraphs explaining why? The thing with Figma is not the idea itself, but the execution.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rchaud 5y ago
  Everybody is trying to recreate Stratechery.
everyone 5y ago
"Companies are a sequencing of loops" .. What!?
- fnord77 5y ago
  yeah either I'm dumb or they just don't explain what that means
- LegitShady 5y ago
  pretty sure he's talking about processes - a successful company is one that has figured out or is constantly figuring out what processes to do in what order. He just tried to read godel escher bach and all he grabbed was 'loops'.
- daRealDodo 5y ago
  Maybe he's talking about the hyperloop.
- prepend 5y ago
  I think my assumption is that he just read Hofstadter’s I am a Strange Loop and now wants to see the world and talk about the world in a strange new way.
unsolvable 5y ago
It doesn't win for me. I needed some kind of vector program just to create a logo so I used it. I had to download the desktop version because that was the only way to access the fonts installed on my computer. I then uninstalled it after a while because I only needed it for that one thing. After a few months I look at my running processes and see some figma thing running in the background that was never uninstalled. That is enough for me to never use it again. I hate all of these online social "free" things now. I just buy real programs that I can keep and don't connect to my friends list or whatever a hybrid social network / work tool does.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  I think that is the problem. The common use case is mostly what you describe (a single user working on an isolated drawing) but the social features is what makes it sexy and what enables the company to raise money at spiraling valuations.
  - Griffinsauce 5y ago
    > The common use case is Citation needed. A lot of (most?) design work happens in cooperation with others (clients, teammates).
sgt 5y ago
I don't use either, but isn't Figma a web app, while Sketch is a native macOS app? Then I would choose the native app any day. Correct me if I am mistaken.
- pjerem 5y ago
  Maybe if like 93% of the population, you, or the people you share your work with, are not running macOS.
  - sgt 5y ago
    I've never seen anyone doing graphics design etc and not using a Mac to do it.
    - zupa-hu 5y ago
      Hello, I’m one of them! For context, I’m a software engineer but also do design because I have to (startup, a free no/code website builder, boomla.com). I even bought a Mac for running Sketch but I just couldn’t use both platforms because of their differences (keyboard shortcuts). I guess there are tons of part-time-designers who don’t switch.
- ichik 5y ago
  FWIW maybe Sketch fixed their stuff, but in 2018–2019 Figma's performance was just so much better that I switched and never looked back.
nbzso 5y ago
I hate Figma for: Browser only experience. Even when I save locally a file I cannot use it when offline. This may sound strange, but the browser only approach is not future proof and makes me really uncomfortable. Pushing new functionality in my face - FigJam. No. I will not use it. Ultimately what's makes Figma great have potential to make it awful. The new pricing is not adequate. There is one big reason that I like Figma, beside collaboration. It works under Linux.
krm01 5y ago
I'm surprised by the many negative comments, as my experience is the opposite. We're a small B2B UI/UX Design agency[1] and used to work with Sketch. When first trying out Figma, we practically never came back (even though it was more expensive to use). Here's why: - Figma allows for better collaboration between designers - Figma allows for easier inspection by developers - Having everything in the cloud is a huge plus. Especially if you work on tons of projects. Saving things on physical hard drives (or cloud based like Dropbox) becomes a mess when you're working with teams. - It's super easy to quickly look at a design together while you're on a call. - Overall it Figma has saved us a ton of time and decreased communication errors between design & dev teams. It's possible that Figma only makes sense for larger teams and isn't the best option for the individual. [1] https://fairpixels.pro https://fairpixels.pro
deltron3030 5y ago
Figma is basically Canva for the design and tech savvy online entrepreneur. With the right plugins it becomes the center for all digital design, not just for UI design like other programs (e.g. Sketch). Figmas pen-tool is quite good and suitable for more complicated logo design and simpe illustrations. With this and its plugin ecosystem it's kinda sitting in the middle between more complex Adobe apps and "fast design" apps for non designers like Canva. Canva realized that Figma is coming for them and they've even added some basic prototyping to their app, lol!
devteambravo 5y ago
The price increases, the shoddy UX, the fact that it’s made itself irreplaceable. Yeah all these things make me dislike Figma. And yet, nothing comes close for easy/fast collab.
giglamesh 5y ago
Wins what? Perhaps my organization is using wrong, but for the life of me I can't seem to navigate through a design presented by Figma. A link takes me to a giant white screen with all the screens in the center, far too small to see, and the only way to navigate is to zoom in, and zoom back out more or less blindly looking for the particular screen in which I'm interested. The navigation menu on the left does not appear to actually navigate to anything. It is a disaster. EDIT: upon reviewing my post, it seems like Figma was designed and tested by people with very large monitors? It is sheer struggle for me to use it with a 13" MacBook.
youmaylike 5y ago
I don’t love the UI but collaboration is a killer feature, just like Google docs/sheets/slides. If you work on a team that collaborates in real time, there’s really no contest, especially if it’s distributed. Before Figma we used Sketch, Zeplin, InVision, and a design-centric repo to do the same thing. Figma is cheaper per seat.

61 points by conanxin 5y ago

Figma is just awful. They do everything they shouldn't from a perspective of building a rendering engine for graphics design. Not only that, but the endless round trips of assets to the server is so unnecessary when everything could be managed locally.

samcheng 5y ago
Figma has facilitated improved product management productivity via easy collaboration between designers, managers, developers, copywriters, and others. I don't really care about the tool's performance optimization or lack thereof! It's the team's performance I care most about. If the designers were complaining about Figma's performance, I'd see your point, but they like it too...
dang 5y ago
Please don't rush into the comments with a reflexive reaction to the generic topic or something in the title. That's not a substantive contribution and it makes for a much less interesting thread. It would be much better to react to something specific in the actual article. Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to do this when the thread is fresh. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole%20-pigment&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

philliphaydon 5y ago

AHHH I can't stags Figma, it's UX is terrible, it's so difficult to understand what's going on. I feel like I need a PHD to use it.

dang 5y ago
Please don't rush into the comments with a reflexive reaction to the generic topic or something in the title. That's not a substantive contribution and it makes for a much less interesting thread. It would be much better to react to something specific in the actual article. Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to do this when the thread is fresh. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole%20-pigment&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  I skim read about 50% of the article and replied saying I don’t like it because the UX sucks. Because it does suck. We use it at work and it only creates more problems than it tries to solve.
  - dang 5y ago
    Ok, but the article is more narrowly scoped than that. Generic-indignant reactions lead to low-quality threads, so please don't post those.
    - luffapi 5y ago
      Instead of bugging people who don’t like Figma (on topic btw), how about moderating white supremacists off the site like this guy? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28592947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28592947 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=skocznymroczny https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=skocznymroczny
      - dang 5y ago
        If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. You can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com. Please don't post off-topic complaints like this, which we may not even see. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... Also, would you please stop this ideological rampage? You've been posting about almost nothing else for days now. HN is a wide-open forum with millions of users all over the world. It's inevitably going to get the full spectrum of posts. Picking a few bad ones and acting like those define either the community or the moderators is a huge non sequitur, even though I know it's emotionally convincing. This is a classic cognitive bias (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). Everyone does it, and the people you disagree with are every bit as convinced that the site is a "hotbed" or (favorite term) "cesspool" of your side. The truth is that: (1) extreme posts are a tiny portion of what shows up here and we moderate them when we see them (see first paragraph above), and (2) HN has a spectrum of ideological views because the world has a spectrum of ideological views. You can't expect a community as large and as widely distributed as this to differ much from the general population.

baybal2 5y ago

What is Figma?

dang 5y ago

Discussed at the time: Why Figma Wins - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23584954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23584954 - June 2020 (181 comments)

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ahmedfromtunis 5y ago

I'm on Linux, so the only way to use Figma is in the browser. Everytime I use it, I'm astonished at what can be done with a web app — and makes me wonder: why didn't Adobe make a web version of Illustrator or inDesign?

_boffin_ 5y ago
I'd love to see web apps handle multi-gigabyte file workloads that have the ability to dynamically link in other assets that can be just as large.
sonofhans 5y ago
It's a perfect example of the Innovator's Dilemma -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma I'm not trying to shill for the book, but it coined the phrase and elucidates it well. Roughly: new technology often doesn't enable much functionality that legacy technology already does. This is seen as an advantage by both sides. In truth, it's often an advantage for new tech, because new tech has advantages which old tech lacks. WRT Adobe, there are certainly huge swaths of their product plans which are impossible with web-based tech. So web-based tech looks crappy to them. They've downplayed and ignored the advantages of web-based tech. By the time these advantages start biting them in the market they're a decade behind, and will have to build expertise in new tech in order to catch up. Most companies cannot do this.
nbzso 5y ago
Actually there is unofficial Figma-linux flatpak/snap package which is functional. But it is like other "local" web-apps for Windows and Mac. I hate SaaS model and I hate online only approach. But since pandemic started this is practically the only option for collaborative design. We use Sketch/Affinity for things that we want to have available offline and recreate in Figma for hand-off and communication. If Figma had offline workflow it will evaporate Sketch and other tools from marketplace. But actually this will not happen. It is cheaper for them to work on one unified code-base. Actually Framer also moved to this direction.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

achow 5y ago

Repasting couple of comments from previous posts around Figma. They need to be repeated.. - Love Figma! However, their enterprise licence is $45/month ($540 annually)! That is ludicrous for the functionality that the app provides. - Figma is a closed eco system. You cannot export the files and open them in other app for editing. Sketch is open, and Figma takes advantage of that - it imports and converts to Figma, but will not allow other way round. It is one way traffic with Figma.

staticassertion 5y ago
45/month for an enterprise seems like nothing. How many editors could a company have? If every editor costs ~50k (I'm making this up, I suspect it's more), 540 annual is a blip.
- achow 5y ago
  Compare $45/month to $33/Month (Photoshop). Edited the price & feature info. Photoshop has 20+ years of development behind it, tons of feature across different domains (UI, photography, animation to print production), cutting edge Visual Computing features.., plus 1TB cloud storage. https://www.adobe.com/plans-fragments/modals/business/modals/photoshop/master.html https://www.adobe.com/plans-fragments/modals/business/modals... The key word is $45/month for the functionality it provides. [Disclaimer - NOT A fan of Adobe and trying to get away from the shackles of it.]
  - ichik 5y ago
    So you're comparing enterprise license of Figma with individual license for Photoshop? That's a tad unfair seeing as individual Figma license is free.
    - achow 5y ago
      Thanks. Updated the enterprise price info for Photoshop ($33 vs for personal $25)
  - 5y ago

shp0ngle 5y ago

This article seems almost entirely devoid of actual content or insight? Yes, people love collaborative editing. I don't need 20 paragraphs explaining why? The thing with Figma is not the idea itself, but the execution.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rchaud 5y ago
Everybody is trying to recreate Stratechery.

everyone 5y ago

"Companies are a sequencing of loops" .. What!?

fnord77 5y ago
yeah either I'm dumb or they just don't explain what that means
LegitShady 5y ago
pretty sure he's talking about processes - a successful company is one that has figured out or is constantly figuring out what processes to do in what order. He just tried to read godel escher bach and all he grabbed was 'loops'.
daRealDodo 5y ago
Maybe he's talking about the hyperloop.
prepend 5y ago
I think my assumption is that he just read Hofstadter’s I am a Strange Loop and now wants to see the world and talk about the world in a strange new way.

unsolvable 5y ago

It doesn't win for me. I needed some kind of vector program just to create a logo so I used it. I had to download the desktop version because that was the only way to access the fonts installed on my computer. I then uninstalled it after a while because I only needed it for that one thing. After a few months I look at my running processes and see some figma thing running in the background that was never uninstalled. That is enough for me to never use it again. I hate all of these online social "free" things now. I just buy real programs that I can keep and don't connect to my friends list or whatever a hybrid social network / work tool does.

throwaway4good 5y ago
I think that is the problem. The common use case is mostly what you describe (a single user working on an isolated drawing) but the social features is what makes it sexy and what enables the company to raise money at spiraling valuations.
- Griffinsauce 5y ago
  > The common use case is Citation needed. A lot of (most?) design work happens in cooperation with others (clients, teammates).

sgt 5y ago

I don't use either, but isn't Figma a web app, while Sketch is a native macOS app? Then I would choose the native app any day. Correct me if I am mistaken.

pjerem 5y ago
Maybe if like 93% of the population, you, or the people you share your work with, are not running macOS.
- sgt 5y ago
  I've never seen anyone doing graphics design etc and not using a Mac to do it.
  - zupa-hu 5y ago
    Hello, I’m one of them! For context, I’m a software engineer but also do design because I have to (startup, a free no/code website builder, boomla.com). I even bought a Mac for running Sketch but I just couldn’t use both platforms because of their differences (keyboard shortcuts). I guess there are tons of part-time-designers who don’t switch.
ichik 5y ago
FWIW maybe Sketch fixed their stuff, but in 2018–2019 Figma's performance was just so much better that I switched and never looked back.

nbzso 5y ago

I hate Figma for: Browser only experience. Even when I save locally a file I cannot use it when offline. This may sound strange, but the browser only approach is not future proof and makes me really uncomfortable. Pushing new functionality in my face - FigJam. No. I will not use it. Ultimately what's makes Figma great have potential to make it awful. The new pricing is not adequate. There is one big reason that I like Figma, beside collaboration. It works under Linux.

krm01 5y ago

I'm surprised by the many negative comments, as my experience is the opposite. We're a small B2B UI/UX Design agency[1] and used to work with Sketch. When first trying out Figma, we practically never came back (even though it was more expensive to use). Here's why: - Figma allows for better collaboration between designers - Figma allows for easier inspection by developers - Having everything in the cloud is a huge plus. Especially if you work on tons of projects. Saving things on physical hard drives (or cloud based like Dropbox) becomes a mess when you're working with teams. - It's super easy to quickly look at a design together while you're on a call. - Overall it Figma has saved us a ton of time and decreased communication errors between design & dev teams. It's possible that Figma only makes sense for larger teams and isn't the best option for the individual. [1] https://fairpixels.pro https://fairpixels.pro

deltron3030 5y ago

Figma is basically Canva for the design and tech savvy online entrepreneur. With the right plugins it becomes the center for all digital design, not just for UI design like other programs (e.g. Sketch). Figmas pen-tool is quite good and suitable for more complicated logo design and simpe illustrations. With this and its plugin ecosystem it's kinda sitting in the middle between more complex Adobe apps and "fast design" apps for non designers like Canva. Canva realized that Figma is coming for them and they've even added some basic prototyping to their app, lol!

devteambravo 5y ago

The price increases, the shoddy UX, the fact that it’s made itself irreplaceable. Yeah all these things make me dislike Figma. And yet, nothing comes close for easy/fast collab.

giglamesh 5y ago

Wins what? Perhaps my organization is using wrong, but for the life of me I can't seem to navigate through a design presented by Figma. A link takes me to a giant white screen with all the screens in the center, far too small to see, and the only way to navigate is to zoom in, and zoom back out more or less blindly looking for the particular screen in which I'm interested. The navigation menu on the left does not appear to actually navigate to anything. It is a disaster. EDIT: upon reviewing my post, it seems like Figma was designed and tested by people with very large monitors? It is sheer struggle for me to use it with a 13" MacBook.

youmaylike 5y ago

I don’t love the UI but collaboration is a killer feature, just like Google docs/sheets/slides. If you work on a team that collaborates in real time, there’s really no contest, especially if it’s distributed. Before Figma we used Sketch, Zeplin, InVision, and a design-centric repo to do the same thing. Figma is cheaper per seat.