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children need to experience the world, they need to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes -thats whats being young is all about take that away and they'l

children need to experience the world, they need to make mistakes and learn from their mistakes -thats whats being young is all about take that away and they'll make mistakes as adults with more serious consequences

kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
Some things that some people view as mistakes are not necessarily large mistakes. For example, people swear all the time, and yet some schools might expel or suspend the child if the child is caught swearing. Having such a reaction to something so minor is a problem.
- II2II 5y ago
  > Having such a reaction to something so minor is a problem. Swearing is one of those things that ranges from not being a problem to being a big problem. Kids using words because they are forbidden is not a problem. A kid swearing in front of teachers to signal disrespect is something that needs to be addressed. A child swearing at another child in anger, then it may be necessary to unwind what's going on and that may determine if harsh consequences are necessary. While I have never heard of a child being suspended/expelled over swearing, yet if it did happen it was probably due to something else going on. Part of the problem with this surveillance is, at best, we can flag conversations that correlate with certain outcomes. Things like understanding context and motivation take discourse, yet understanding context and motivation are essential when considering a course of action. (Of course the other part of the problem are the privacy implications, which is horrific if even a tiny fraction of what the article claims is true.)
  - kps 5y ago
    > A kid swearing in front of teachers to signal disrespect is something that needs to be addressed. … because an early understanding of the educational system might lead to incorrect voting later in life, with potentially serious consequences for said system's tax revenues.
    - LocalH 5y ago
      "incorrect voting" Are you mad?
      - kps 5y ago
        Mad? No, I just forgot that I'm on American VC News, so it's necessary to assume a stuffed-shirt stick-up-the-arse inability to grasp any literary device.
- dumptruk 5y ago
  Likely anecdotal, but I recall doing a bad behavior (throwing another kids binder over the school fence), that absolutely mortified me in second grade. Another one was me kicking an exit door of a school when a friend was deliberately holding the exit door closed. Looking back, the punishments felt arbitrary based on some random factor that I didn’t understand as a kid. Throwing a binder meant monetary compensation (described by the principal). Kicking the door didn’t have a definitive reason, but I assumed general “rambunctiousness” was to blame. Maybe I’m passing the buck here, but I didn’t completely understand the result of my actions, and felt, as an adult, was an obvious opportunity to teach a kid something enlightening but instead just got passed to my parents who were happy to punish me without context. I’m 38
  - itronitron 5y ago
    One data point for you to add to the arbitrary column... One of my children chucked their school laptop out of their bedroom window which then landed on concrete fifty feet below. The display was shattered, so I emailed the school and informed them that the laptop had been dropped and damaged, and can we order a replacement. They let us know the replacement cost, and we picked up the new laptop a few weeks later but were never billed for the expense :)
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      Out of curiosity, how did you discipline your child? What were the consequences?
      - itronitron 5y ago
        They owned up to it and were so upset about having done it that the discipline/consequences imposed were pretty mild. I made the point several times to them that they were incredibly lucky that no one was hit by it on the way down, and that they absolutely can't do it again. I'm pretty sure they hadn't thought that through.
andrepd 5y ago
An observation: starting a few years back, it is now virtually impossible for teenagers (well anyone really) to do stupid things without being filmed and potentially exposed globally. Everybody carries smartphones. I did lots of dumb shit when I was younger. Thank god no-one was livestreaming it to the world back then.
- newbamboo 5y ago
  We could do away with cellphones and the always present cameras but addicts act like addicts and will explain how that’s impossible and would be really terrible etc. Because teenage girls really need Instagram or all human progress is nullified, or something like that.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  At the same time, there is both pushback to this very thing and some children have their world broadened in ways that are helpful. Maybe it is my age having some effect on my attitude, but that last bit is what made the INternet so magical... back in the days of AOL chat rooms. I had access to a lot of people and some of them simply accepted me for me. So much better than folks asking my friends why they were even friends with me or folks following me around laughing just within hearing. I really wish I had internet sooner just for the comfort.
- blitzar 5y ago
  > it is now virtually impossible for teenagers (well anyone really) to do stupid things without being filmed and potentially exposed globally You say it like they didnt get everyone to gather around and film them while they did dumb shit in the hope that it would 'go viral' on tik tok and make them into the next meme.

kaladin-jasnah 5y ago

Some things that some people view as mistakes are not necessarily large mistakes. For example, people swear all the time, and yet some schools might expel or suspend the child if the child is caught swearing. Having such a reaction to something so minor is a problem.

II2II 5y ago
> Having such a reaction to something so minor is a problem. Swearing is one of those things that ranges from not being a problem to being a big problem. Kids using words because they are forbidden is not a problem. A kid swearing in front of teachers to signal disrespect is something that needs to be addressed. A child swearing at another child in anger, then it may be necessary to unwind what's going on and that may determine if harsh consequences are necessary. While I have never heard of a child being suspended/expelled over swearing, yet if it did happen it was probably due to something else going on. Part of the problem with this surveillance is, at best, we can flag conversations that correlate with certain outcomes. Things like understanding context and motivation take discourse, yet understanding context and motivation are essential when considering a course of action. (Of course the other part of the problem are the privacy implications, which is horrific if even a tiny fraction of what the article claims is true.)
- kps 5y ago
  > A kid swearing in front of teachers to signal disrespect is something that needs to be addressed. … because an early understanding of the educational system might lead to incorrect voting later in life, with potentially serious consequences for said system's tax revenues.
  - LocalH 5y ago
    "incorrect voting" Are you mad?
    - kps 5y ago
      Mad? No, I just forgot that I'm on American VC News, so it's necessary to assume a stuffed-shirt stick-up-the-arse inability to grasp any literary device.
dumptruk 5y ago
Likely anecdotal, but I recall doing a bad behavior (throwing another kids binder over the school fence), that absolutely mortified me in second grade. Another one was me kicking an exit door of a school when a friend was deliberately holding the exit door closed. Looking back, the punishments felt arbitrary based on some random factor that I didn’t understand as a kid. Throwing a binder meant monetary compensation (described by the principal). Kicking the door didn’t have a definitive reason, but I assumed general “rambunctiousness” was to blame. Maybe I’m passing the buck here, but I didn’t completely understand the result of my actions, and felt, as an adult, was an obvious opportunity to teach a kid something enlightening but instead just got passed to my parents who were happy to punish me without context. I’m 38
- itronitron 5y ago
  One data point for you to add to the arbitrary column... One of my children chucked their school laptop out of their bedroom window which then landed on concrete fifty feet below. The display was shattered, so I emailed the school and informed them that the laptop had been dropped and damaged, and can we order a replacement. They let us know the replacement cost, and we picked up the new laptop a few weeks later but were never billed for the expense :)
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    Out of curiosity, how did you discipline your child? What were the consequences?
    - itronitron 5y ago
      They owned up to it and were so upset about having done it that the discipline/consequences imposed were pretty mild. I made the point several times to them that they were incredibly lucky that no one was hit by it on the way down, and that they absolutely can't do it again. I'm pretty sure they hadn't thought that through.

andrepd 5y ago

An observation: starting a few years back, it is now virtually impossible for teenagers (well anyone really) to do stupid things without being filmed and potentially exposed globally. Everybody carries smartphones. I did lots of dumb shit when I was younger. Thank god no-one was livestreaming it to the world back then.

newbamboo 5y ago
We could do away with cellphones and the always present cameras but addicts act like addicts and will explain how that’s impossible and would be really terrible etc. Because teenage girls really need Instagram or all human progress is nullified, or something like that.
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
At the same time, there is both pushback to this very thing and some children have their world broadened in ways that are helpful. Maybe it is my age having some effect on my attitude, but that last bit is what made the INternet so magical... back in the days of AOL chat rooms. I had access to a lot of people and some of them simply accepted me for me. So much better than folks asking my friends why they were even friends with me or folks following me around laughing just within hearing. I really wish I had internet sooner just for the comfort.
blitzar 5y ago
> it is now virtually impossible for teenagers (well anyone really) to do stupid things without being filmed and potentially exposed globally You say it like they didnt get everyone to gather around and film them while they did dumb shit in the hope that it would 'go viral' on tik tok and make them into the next meme.