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Right before COVID hit, I called my local school system out for installing spyware on my son and daughter's chromebooks. These were not provided by the school,

Right before COVID hit, I called my local school system out for installing spyware on my son and daughter's chromebooks. These were not provided by the school, they were bought by me. The spyware included a keylogger, something that forwarded every URL requested, a screenshotter, and a popunder autoclicker (yes, ad fraud). After a few emails back and forth, I sent one in demanding to see a search warrant and to know what horrible behavior the school believed gave them the right to search my computer. About 10 minutes later the spyware was removed from my son's school Chrome account and I got a call from the school system CIO who was making extra-sure I wasn't going to take further legal action.

giantg2 5y ago
Nice. Most schools are getting are getting around this by providing chromebooks... but making them mandatory and parents responsible for any damage.
- indymike 5y ago
  The lawyer thought it would not have mattered if the school provided the hardware or not. There was no reason to be looking for crime, without at least a warrant. Additionally, the Chromebook might be plugged into my home network, where it might be used to surviel more than my child's academic usage. The fact uniformed police officers were on the school's payroll was enough to turn it into a constitutional issue. It is really important that parents be willing to stand up for our children's rights. They don't know better, and they don't have the money. And yes, as a parent, it's worth spending money on.
  - floatboth 5y ago
    > uniformed police officers were on the school's payroll This is nuts. Even in countries that are quite authoritarian politically there's way less policing of boring daily life. You are living in a ridiculous police state.
    - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
      This is normal in American high schools. Even in the 1980s, when I was in high school and before school shootings, we had one or two officers on the grounds every day. It was their full-time job.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        I think it depends on the area and school size. It seems like the larger or more urban schools tend, or tended, to have police or even security guards. A lot of the smaller rural schools did not.
        TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
        You're probably right. But my school was in a suburb of 60,000 - 80,000 people. Not urban.
        giantg2 5y ago
        Yeah, the rural schools I'm talking about graduate about 100 students. So it sounds like yours are quite a bit large.
        floatboth 5y ago
        > police or even security guards "Or even"? Aren't guards the much much "lighter", more reasonable option? Guards usually just sit there watching the CCTV (often dicking around on their phone instead), they don't have the same ability to wield state-sanctioned violence that the police has.
        giantg2 5y ago
        It depends. You can have unarmed guards that are basically as you describe. Although the comment about being on their phone is commonly applicable to the police as well. Those guards are practically worthless since all they will be doing is calling the police if something happens - something the staff could do. You could also have armed guards. Most states have licensing requirements for armed and even unarmed guards. They can have some state-sanctioned violence too. For example, felonies committed in ones presence are enforced by state licensed guards (not much different than citizen's arrest except because one has a state issued license the court bias is with you rather than against you). And an example of a felony would be striking a teacher (or guard/police) which is aggravated assualt (in my state). Another thing is that many times the schools only want to hire retired LEOs for their guard positions. This can give them more leeway due to prosecutorial and law enforcement discretion as well as court bias.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I agree that they shouldn't be surveilled. I wonder why schools are allowed to use the software if the lawyer thinks it's not legal. I assume the school is still using the software on the other students devices. Also, I believe there is case law (that I disagree with) that shows law enforcement does not need a warrant to search school property, like lockers but might include school provided hardware. The final thing is that they don't need a warrant if people agree to a search. Obviously you didn't agreed and they removed the software, but ostensibly they are using consent of the student handbook or some such thing for the rest of the students.

giantg2 5y ago

Nice. Most schools are getting are getting around this by providing chromebooks... but making them mandatory and parents responsible for any damage.

indymike 5y ago
The lawyer thought it would not have mattered if the school provided the hardware or not. There was no reason to be looking for crime, without at least a warrant. Additionally, the Chromebook might be plugged into my home network, where it might be used to surviel more than my child's academic usage. The fact uniformed police officers were on the school's payroll was enough to turn it into a constitutional issue. It is really important that parents be willing to stand up for our children's rights. They don't know better, and they don't have the money. And yes, as a parent, it's worth spending money on.
- floatboth 5y ago
  > uniformed police officers were on the school's payroll This is nuts. Even in countries that are quite authoritarian politically there's way less policing of boring daily life. You are living in a ridiculous police state.
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    This is normal in American high schools. Even in the 1980s, when I was in high school and before school shootings, we had one or two officers on the grounds every day. It was their full-time job.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      I think it depends on the area and school size. It seems like the larger or more urban schools tend, or tended, to have police or even security guards. A lot of the smaller rural schools did not.
      - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
        You're probably right. But my school was in a suburb of 60,000 - 80,000 people. Not urban.
        giantg2 5y ago
        Yeah, the rural schools I'm talking about graduate about 100 students. So it sounds like yours are quite a bit large.
      - floatboth 5y ago
        > police or even security guards "Or even"? Aren't guards the much much "lighter", more reasonable option? Guards usually just sit there watching the CCTV (often dicking around on their phone instead), they don't have the same ability to wield state-sanctioned violence that the police has.
        giantg2 5y ago
        It depends. You can have unarmed guards that are basically as you describe. Although the comment about being on their phone is commonly applicable to the police as well. Those guards are practically worthless since all they will be doing is calling the police if something happens - something the staff could do. You could also have armed guards. Most states have licensing requirements for armed and even unarmed guards. They can have some state-sanctioned violence too. For example, felonies committed in ones presence are enforced by state licensed guards (not much different than citizen's arrest except because one has a state issued license the court bias is with you rather than against you). And an example of a felony would be striking a teacher (or guard/police) which is aggravated assualt (in my state). Another thing is that many times the schools only want to hire retired LEOs for their guard positions. This can give them more leeway due to prosecutorial and law enforcement discretion as well as court bias.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I agree that they shouldn't be surveilled. I wonder why schools are allowed to use the software if the lawyer thinks it's not legal. I assume the school is still using the software on the other students devices. Also, I believe there is case law (that I disagree with) that shows law enforcement does not need a warrant to search school property, like lockers but might include school provided hardware. The final thing is that they don't need a warrant if people agree to a search. Obviously you didn't agreed and they removed the software, but ostensibly they are using consent of the student handbook or some such thing for the rest of the students.