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My school district issues Chromebooks (mandatory). Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to e

My school district issues Chromebooks (mandatory). Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty. It’s ridiculous and I’m not sure I can do anything about it.

jimbob45 5y ago
Is that not just for accessibility though? Surely the more affluent kids just use their own, more powerful computers for homework. I'm guessing the Chromebooks are just for the lower-class kids. I could be wrong though.
- Nullabillity 5y ago
  Isn't that even worse? "Pay not to have your privacy invaded!"
- brewdad 5y ago
  My son has a nice, recent model laptop. He borrowed a Chromebook from the school last year because he refused to install their test monitoring spyware on his personal machine.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Good for him!
dylan604 5y ago
Don't allow it in the house while not in use specifically for school. Keep it in a faraday cage at the least. All sorts of ways of combating this type of bullshit, and it's also a teachable moment for your kids. The problem is this is similar behavior to those wearing tinfoil hats. What used to be signs of crazy are now normal day things.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  I don't think a Faraday cage solves the problem. Monday at school, the device gets a remote command to record that evening. Then while it's in the Faraday cage Monday evening, it records to its hard drive. Tuesday back at school, it uploads everything it recorded.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    So keep it in the car. Don't leave it turned on. There's a lot of things one can do to keep a computer from recording when they don't want it to. You're just trying really hard to come up with excuses of not trying and to just sit back and let it happen. It's pretty disgusting.
    - josephcsible 5y ago
      Keeping it in the car would work, but not turning it on wouldn't unless the battery is removable. Modern computers can be set up in UEFI to power on at a certain time. > You're just trying really hard to come up with excuses of not trying and to just sit back and let it happen. It's pretty disgusting. That's definitely not my goal.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Fine. Leave it on, but point the camera/mic at another screen/sound playing horror films or the Barney theme song on infinite repeat. Maybe an image of text calling the principal and school board out by name. There's all sorts of ways to make this painful for the people watching it. Just needs a little creativity instead of shrugging the shoulders and complaining on the internet. Take steps to protect your kids. They are your kids, not the school's. Also, vote the dumbasses on the school board out next term. Vote in people running against this.
no_butterscotch 5y ago
> Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty. A few years ago there were cases of cameras being enabled by faculty who observed teenagers in their bedrooms, doing something or another, I can't remember if there were salacious details (nudity, sex?) involved - but it was a scandal at the time. Now it's normal?
- Spockrol 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School... You're thinking of WebcamGate from 2010. It resulted in a civil case, and the FBI and US Attorney Office investigated, but they declined to proceed with any criminal charges. The school district had 66,000 images from students webcams.
thomascgalvin 5y ago
At the very least you could make sure the device is powered down when not in use. A piece of tape over the camera would solve about half of the problem, and is just a good idea in general. If you want to be a bit more paranoid, set up a separate network for the school-issued devices, and turn those networks off except during school hours. Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  > Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal. yep, this is the solution... "why do you need the option to record my kids?" They probably don't have a good answer, and the parents will want to know.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  Oh, I don’t mean the physical things. I instilled the appropriate level of paranoia already (do you want creepy-teacher “…” spying at you). It’s more about fighting the ridiculous policy, which shouldn’t be a thing.
walshemj 5y ago
Even at night in a Childs bedroom that's a creating CSM right there which is a strict liability offence remember.
chuckee 5y ago
> I’m not sure I can do anything about it. Make sure every single parent and child knows about this paragraph. And the name of every individual that put it there. At every school meeting, ask them why that paragraph is buried, instead of prominently displayed on the laptop itself. Ask them to install cameras in their homes, controlled by you.
josephcsible 5y ago
For your own kids, how about this? Open up the Chromebook and disconnect the camera and mic. Get USB ones that can be plugged in when needed for Zoom lessons and then unplugged immediately afterwards. Reconnect the built-in ones right before you return it.
- giantg2 5y ago
  They are likely school provided/owned and you wouldn't be allowed to modify them.
  - akomtu 5y ago
    That's a toothless rule. Is letting it fall by accident allowed? So if any questions arise, just say "oh, I broke it by accident". The school board disrespects you already, so why would you respect any of their rules?
    - giantg2 5y ago
      At leaat in my district... They make you pay to fix it (with their vendor) or buy a new one. They own it, you essentially lease it. And it is required. Not sure if they give your kid detention, call CPS, or something else.
      - saltminer 5y ago
        In my district, kids with unpaid fees were not allowed to graduate high school. This included everything from unreturned textbooks to damage to school property.
literallyaduck 5y ago
Get a lawyer and sue.
literallyaduck 5y ago
They did: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/privacy/google-class-action-says-kids-data-collected-from-school-chromebooks https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/privacy/goog...
giantg2 5y ago
It could be illegal in some states. For example, if it records people in a private setting who did not consent, like relatives. I absolutely hate the mandatory use of laptops and such below high school level. I think our local district is starting it in 5th or 6th grade. Granted the school also whitelists what snacks are allowed, down to what brand of chips, and completely disallows things like meat and cheese...
- psychlops 5y ago
  Never fight a school in court. The school always wins.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    Generally, but not always. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_Scho...
- mLuby 5y ago
  > who did not consent You almost certainly "consented" by checking "I agree" to the ToS.
  - shostack 5y ago
    But others recorded may not have.
dystopiabreaker 5y ago
Sure you can. Write some code that gives students the ability to turn off the surveillance. Distribute it. Not only does this stop the surveillance, it also brings to light the issue and those who may be abusing it.
blitzar 5y ago
It is the chance of a lifetime to teach your child valuable lessons that they absolutely will need for the futre. Seperation of work/school time and device with personal. They should use their school device for school stuff and when they finish their work for the day, power it off and move to their personal life.

jimbob45 5y ago

Is that not just for accessibility though? Surely the more affluent kids just use their own, more powerful computers for homework. I'm guessing the Chromebooks are just for the lower-class kids. I could be wrong though.

Nullabillity 5y ago
Isn't that even worse? "Pay not to have your privacy invaded!"
brewdad 5y ago
My son has a nice, recent model laptop. He borrowed a Chromebook from the school last year because he refused to install their test monitoring spyware on his personal machine.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Good for him!

dylan604 5y ago

Don't allow it in the house while not in use specifically for school. Keep it in a faraday cage at the least. All sorts of ways of combating this type of bullshit, and it's also a teachable moment for your kids. The problem is this is similar behavior to those wearing tinfoil hats. What used to be signs of crazy are now normal day things.

josephcsible 5y ago
I don't think a Faraday cage solves the problem. Monday at school, the device gets a remote command to record that evening. Then while it's in the Faraday cage Monday evening, it records to its hard drive. Tuesday back at school, it uploads everything it recorded.
- dylan604 5y ago
  So keep it in the car. Don't leave it turned on. There's a lot of things one can do to keep a computer from recording when they don't want it to. You're just trying really hard to come up with excuses of not trying and to just sit back and let it happen. It's pretty disgusting.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    Keeping it in the car would work, but not turning it on wouldn't unless the battery is removable. Modern computers can be set up in UEFI to power on at a certain time. > You're just trying really hard to come up with excuses of not trying and to just sit back and let it happen. It's pretty disgusting. That's definitely not my goal.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Fine. Leave it on, but point the camera/mic at another screen/sound playing horror films or the Barney theme song on infinite repeat. Maybe an image of text calling the principal and school board out by name. There's all sorts of ways to make this painful for the people watching it. Just needs a little creativity instead of shrugging the shoulders and complaining on the internet. Take steps to protect your kids. They are your kids, not the school's. Also, vote the dumbasses on the school board out next term. Vote in people running against this.

no_butterscotch 5y ago

> Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty. A few years ago there were cases of cameras being enabled by faculty who observed teenagers in their bedrooms, doing something or another, I can't remember if there were salacious details (nudity, sex?) involved - but it was a scandal at the time. Now it's normal?

Spockrol 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School... You're thinking of WebcamGate from 2010. It resulted in a civil case, and the FBI and US Attorney Office investigated, but they declined to proceed with any criminal charges. The school district had 66,000 images from students webcams.

thomascgalvin 5y ago

At the very least you could make sure the device is powered down when not in use. A piece of tape over the camera would solve about half of the problem, and is just a good idea in general. If you want to be a bit more paranoid, set up a separate network for the school-issued devices, and turn those networks off except during school hours. Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
> Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal. yep, this is the solution... "why do you need the option to record my kids?" They probably don't have a good answer, and the parents will want to know.
nobodyandproud 5y ago
Oh, I don’t mean the physical things. I instilled the appropriate level of paranoia already (do you want creepy-teacher “…” spying at you). It’s more about fighting the ridiculous policy, which shouldn’t be a thing.

walshemj 5y ago

Even at night in a Childs bedroom that's a creating CSM right there which is a strict liability offence remember.

chuckee 5y ago

> I’m not sure I can do anything about it. Make sure every single parent and child knows about this paragraph. And the name of every individual that put it there. At every school meeting, ask them why that paragraph is buried, instead of prominently displayed on the laptop itself. Ask them to install cameras in their homes, controlled by you.

josephcsible 5y ago

For your own kids, how about this? Open up the Chromebook and disconnect the camera and mic. Get USB ones that can be plugged in when needed for Zoom lessons and then unplugged immediately afterwards. Reconnect the built-in ones right before you return it.

giantg2 5y ago
They are likely school provided/owned and you wouldn't be allowed to modify them.
- akomtu 5y ago
  That's a toothless rule. Is letting it fall by accident allowed? So if any questions arise, just say "oh, I broke it by accident". The school board disrespects you already, so why would you respect any of their rules?
  - giantg2 5y ago
    At leaat in my district... They make you pay to fix it (with their vendor) or buy a new one. They own it, you essentially lease it. And it is required. Not sure if they give your kid detention, call CPS, or something else.
    - saltminer 5y ago
      In my district, kids with unpaid fees were not allowed to graduate high school. This included everything from unreturned textbooks to damage to school property.

literallyaduck 5y ago

Get a lawyer and sue.

literallyaduck 5y ago

They did: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/privacy/google-class-action-says-kids-data-collected-from-school-chromebooks https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/privacy/goog...

giantg2 5y ago

It could be illegal in some states. For example, if it records people in a private setting who did not consent, like relatives. I absolutely hate the mandatory use of laptops and such below high school level. I think our local district is starting it in 5th or 6th grade. Granted the school also whitelists what snacks are allowed, down to what brand of chips, and completely disallows things like meat and cheese...

psychlops 5y ago
Never fight a school in court. The school always wins.
- giantg2 5y ago
  Generally, but not always. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_Scho...
mLuby 5y ago
> who did not consent You almost certainly "consented" by checking "I agree" to the ToS.
- shostack 5y ago
  But others recorded may not have.

dystopiabreaker 5y ago

Sure you can. Write some code that gives students the ability to turn off the surveillance. Distribute it. Not only does this stop the surveillance, it also brings to light the issue and those who may be abusing it.

blitzar 5y ago

It is the chance of a lifetime to teach your child valuable lessons that they absolutely will need for the futre. Seperation of work/school time and device with personal. They should use their school device for school stuff and when they finish their work for the day, power it off and move to their personal life.