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This is pretty outrageous. This constant need to fully control and monitor everything your kids are doing is getting out of hand and will by itself lead to seve
by tacker2000 5y ago
This is pretty outrageous. This constant need to fully control and monitor everything your kids are doing is getting out of hand and will by itself lead to severe problems and mental issues for the future generations.
I mean, who didnt share or look at some porn when they were 10 years old? Would it be worth it for a whole army of teachers and consultants to descend on you and file an “incident report” and a “follow up” and “de brief” for this? What a colossal waste of resources and money. The $300k for the software could be better spent elsewhere.
And yes, one suicide was apparently prevented, but then here we are again at the same argument, its like the one in the current apple/child porn case.
Should we all get monitored just because of one positive but disproportionately small outcome?
- whiddershins 5y agoI did not share or look at porn at 10 years old, and I don’t think that it was common to do so pre-puberty, pre-internet. I’m not sure there is gain in normalizing this.
- Clubber 5y ago>I don’t think that it was common to do so pre-puberty, pre-internet. Pre-puberty, probably not, no interest for obvious reasons. Pre-internet, absolutely. Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, etc were prevalent. BBS's existed too.
- autoliteInline 5y agoGotta ask how old are you? I do remember a Playboy when it came out in 1971. The Willy Rey issue (girl on the stock certificate). Nice looking. Not only were Playboys pretty rare, but they were a different kettle of fish than any modern adult images/video. Are times better or worse? I couldn't tell you. Lots of differences. Many women never have children. Divorce is common. People aren't raised on farms with all the attendant physical realities of life. Slavery was common in most societies. People got married at young ages. Sex has been secretive or not depending on the era. Probably the worst thing about porn is a scarring of the mind, sex as non-participatory act, exotica as normal, staring at screens, addictive behavior, the internet as a net negative.
- whiddershins 5y agoBBS’s are the internet. Anyway, what I was trying to say was, pre-internet it kinda required post-puberty hormones to be motivated enough to clear the hurdles to accessing porn. Also, to another commenter’s point, the porn I was able to access was amazingly innocent by comparison to what is probably commonly available now.
- Clubber 5y ago>BBS’s are the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system They kinda melded a little at the end of the BBS era and the beginning of the public internet era with integrated email and whatnot and you can still get to some via telnet, but they were distinct entities / networks / protocols from the internet.
- LocalH 5y agoBBS's are most certainly not the internet. They were most often stand-alone and independent, with offline networking in the form of FidoNet ("offline" in that FidoNet boards would dial up at regular times to transmit and receive messages from other nodes). BBS's entirely predate the Internet's general availability (although of course the Internet is older than most people realize).
- croutonwagon 5y agoI grew up pre internet. We, as neighborshood kids, had a stash in the woods of pornos we stole from family.
- jwond 5y agoTo be fair, I think a lot of modern internet porn is probably way more depraved than porn that existed pre-internet, and there is a virtually infinite supply of it available for free. One consequence of this is that there are a lot of people, especially young people, who are addicted to porn. Personally, I think it’s best to avoid porn completely.
- josephcsible 5y agoWe definitely should not be normalizing this, but we also should not be building a panopticon just to try to stop it.
- whiddershins 5y agoAgree. Both can be true at once.
- bcrosby95 5y agoMe neither - I was 8. One friend's dad had playboy magazines. Another had videos. And another had games where if you knew the password (we did) it would show some 8 bit graphics with nudity. It wasn't about sexual arousal. It was just about curiosity. Hell, my 6 year old tries to see my butt all the time. Because it's my butt and it's usually covered.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoThose examples are nudity as far as I can tell. I think we’re talking about porn, which is quite another thing for an 8 year old to experience.
- tclancy 5y agoWell, as long as you are the person who is normal, we can finally all set our sails in the right direction.
- kongin 5y agoYou must have been an extremely boring 10 year old then.
- whiddershins 5y agoYou have no idea.
- AngryData 5y agoPlenty of porn in the woods pre-internet.
- hef19898 5y agoNot even the lingerie section in mail-order catalogues? Kids use what they have. And yes, sexual content is a normal thing. just talk to kids about it, and why they are too young watching that stuff. You cannot prevent anyways.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y agoHow is the lingerie section anything like porn? Nudity != porn
- hef19898 5y agoFor a 10 year old, pre internet, it was the closest thing. a and easy to come by. I don't have problem with either, so.
- collegeburner 5y agoIt's the digitization of the mindset where parents wouldn't let their kids go a mile to the park alone, or go play with a friend on the next block, etc. By the way, there's an app called life360 that's increasingly popular with parents of high school kids. It tracks the user everywhere, monitors driving speed, that sort of thing, so the parents can observe their children at all times. Some have even demanded that their children continue using it in college. It's a goddamn digital panopticon and it needs to stop.
- josephcsible 5y ago> Some have even demanded that their children continue using it in college. This seems like it needs to be fixed with legislation. Make it illegal to track others' location without their explicit consent (hopefully this is already the case, now that I think about it), and also make it illegal for anything whatsoever to be conditional on giving that consent (e.g., make it illegal to tell your kids "I'm only helping to pay for your college tuition, or letting you drive my car, if you install Life360").
- maccolgan 5y agoHow can kids consent anyway?
- giantg2 5y agoThat's a great, and deep, question.
- kongin 5y agoThe idea of consent is a rather dumb one. It came out of kink. Communication and consent in that case is rather important since the difference between rape and battery and a fun night is rather thin. For some getting a toilet brushed vigorously stirred in their privates is a good time for most it isn't. Trying to apply that to normal people is not only bizarre but actively harmful. A much better one is harm minimization, everything people do is bad for them, we just want to make it the least bad it can be. When you start using that lens pretty much all our laws which deal with children are there to make adults feel better and nothing to do with actually protecting children. E.g. sexting is the safest way to have sex. It is also the only way to have sex that two 12 year olds will be arrested and put on the sex offender registry for.
- auslegung 5y agoIf all citizens were locked away in a padded cell, the government would prevent all homicide, overdoses, rape, etc. Just because something prevents a suicide doesn't make it a good thing. I know you're saying the same thing, I'm just putting it more starkly. There are other ways of preventing suicide, homicide, overdoses, rape, etc, which don't violate privacy, security, etc.
- abecedarius 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat...
- kongin 5y agoThe solution is obviously solitary confinement \s.
- notsureaboutpg 5y agoI have always disliked the argument that we as a society MUST do X or Y because it will reduce suicide rates. Being a religious society would also reduce suicide rates, but that won't make America or European societies change from their current secular forms.
- akomtu 5y agoThe ideal society is that scene in Matrix with towers of reddish cells with people in them.
- teeray 5y agoThis strategy is also doomed to failure. We’re talking about kids whose brains are in full-time adapt-and-learn mode. They will create other language to talk about these things that will completely fly over the heads of the adults and the software. I remember being in eighth grade where kids would make fun of a teacher to their face without their knowledge.
- crystalmeph 5y agoThis is the point it’s coming to. When “the other side” says “one death is too many”, I’m almost tempted to scream “one death is not enough.” If we’ve literally made tragedy impossible, there’s no way we haven’t traded away a disproportionate amount of freedom to get there. This is really going to sound dumb, but this kind of creeping surveillance is the biggest reason I hope we can make self-sufficient off-planet colonies. I honestly believe that the trend toward complete surveillance and control in the name of complete safety is irreversible, and the only way to escape it is to literally move to where they cannot physically reach you.
- okamiueru 5y agoWell said. Also, the whole argument of "one bad thing prevented" is fundamentally flawed. It is not possible to evaluate how many bad things it causes, because, unless somehow clear enough for our dumb human observational skills, those are brushed under "would have happened anyways". If schools and governments wanted to help prevent suicides, the answer isn't difficult. You try to improve social security, and otherwise make an effort to foster safe environments. Stranger monitoring everything you do and might punish you for it... is exactly the opposite.
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago> who didnt share or look at some porn when they were 10 years old? Me.