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Relatedly, I've never liked "literacy" as the word here; actual literacy is (at least where I'm from) a relatively low bar and mostly a binary, either you can r

by jrm4 5y ago

Relatedly, I've never liked "literacy" as the word here; actual literacy is (at least where I'm from) a relatively low bar and mostly a binary, either you can read or you cant. And most importantly, the economic system I live in isn't primarily pointed towards thwarting your "reading." Again, for better or worse. Not to necessarily judge capitalism as inherently bad, but it feels like calling it "literacy" carries some judgmental baggage; what we call "financial literacy" is more difficult and shifting all the time.

thomascgalvin 5y ago
I think the phrase "how literate are you?" has meaning, though. I'm a native English speaker, and fully literate when reading an English text. However, if that text is about macro-economics and written at the PhD level, I'm going to struggle with it, even if I know what all the words mean in isolation. But if it's about software engineering and written at a college level, I'll have no trouble. Also, in these contexts, "literate" is used more to mean "has read and understood," not "could read and understand." Being financially literate doesn't mean "if I read an article about why carrying a high balance on a high interest rate credit card is a bad idea, I would walk away understanding those concepts," it means "I know why carrying a high balance on a high interest rate credit card is a bad idea, and I don't do that."
dredmorbius 5y ago
Literacy is a skill. Skills have degrees of proficiency. Literacy is not a binary, can be quantified, and is. And on average, it's far lower than you might think, expect, or hope. "Adult Literacy in the United States" (2019) https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28348039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28348039)
- jrm4 5y ago
  I'm aware of the denotation, I'm talking about the connotation.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    You'd mentioned several specifics in your earlier comment: "actual literacy is (at least where I'm from) a relatively low bar and mostly a binary, either you can read or you cant." Again: I've given you a link that provides extensive evidence that all three of those claims are false. - Literacy isn't a binary. - Bar placement is in fact high. - Reading skills cover a considerable range. If you persist in your argument, you'd be doing so in denial of esablished facts.

by jrm4 5y ago

thomascgalvin 5y ago

I think the phrase "how literate are you?" has meaning, though. I'm a native English speaker, and fully literate when reading an English text. However, if that text is about macro-economics and written at the PhD level, I'm going to struggle with it, even if I know what all the words mean in isolation. But if it's about software engineering and written at a college level, I'll have no trouble. Also, in these contexts, "literate" is used more to mean "has read and understood," not "could read and understand." Being financially literate doesn't mean "if I read an article about why carrying a high balance on a high interest rate credit card is a bad idea, I would walk away understanding those concepts," it means "I know why carrying a high balance on a high interest rate credit card is a bad idea, and I don't do that."

dredmorbius 5y ago

Literacy is a skill. Skills have degrees of proficiency. Literacy is not a binary, can be quantified, and is. And on average, it's far lower than you might think, expect, or hope. "Adult Literacy in the United States" (2019) https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28348039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28348039)

jrm4 5y ago
I'm aware of the denotation, I'm talking about the connotation.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  You'd mentioned several specifics in your earlier comment: "actual literacy is (at least where I'm from) a relatively low bar and mostly a binary, either you can read or you cant." Again: I've given you a link that provides extensive evidence that all three of those claims are false. - Literacy isn't a binary. - Bar placement is in fact high. - Reading skills cover a considerable range. If you persist in your argument, you'd be doing so in denial of esablished facts.