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> its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support The same rules that got previous governments into power got this one in as well. If this

by sinyug 5y ago

> its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support The same rules that got previous governments into power got this one in as well. If this government cannot legitimately claim to be the voice of the Indian people, no one else can either. > Police too needs to be removed from the ambit of politicians. Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? If you don't believe in the 'will of the people' and further believe that most voters are stupid and easily misled, what you are essentially arguing is that democracy does not work in India and that it should be replaced by the rule of a group of "enlightened" but unelected people who are not answerable to the people they govern: an oligarchy.

srean 5y ago
> The same rules that got previous governments Completely agree. > Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. Laws that legislate rights of the Indian police force are one of the most archaic and are a carry over from the British times when its principal purpose was the subjugation of the population so that they could be exploited in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately, but very understandably, the current crop of politicians are unwilling to change that. As you surely know, judiciary enjoys more but not complete autonomy. There is a turf war going on right now with Modi government trying to maneuver into a position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. Technically India is not a democracy. Democracy is perhaps the best means of sharing power that we have, but that should not turn us blind to its egregious blind spots. Ku Klax Klan, the Nazis, slave ownership, etc etc had full support of the democratic institutions of their times. That does not make any of them right. India is having its own KKK moment right now.
- sinyug 5y ago
  > This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. No it hasn't. "Who watches the watchmen" is a question as old as time. > position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. I support that. He should have been more forceful on the NJAC issue and the act should have excluded all judges from the composition of the council. The council should have been composed purely of members of parliament. The funny thing is, every one from the BJP to the TMC has the exact same complaint about "judges appointing judges."[1][2] Judges encroaching on the territory of parliament isn't something that is unique to India. While it might have started in India when the SC invented the concept of the constitution having a "basic structure," with the Golaknath and Kesavananda Bharati judgments, you can see the same thing happening in the US with Marbury v. Madison within a few years of the establishment of the republic. Like politicians, judges are not immune to the trappings of power. > India is having its own KKK moment right now. You are mistaken. We are having a BLM/end-of-apartheid moment right now. The native population that was invaded, raped, plundered, enslaved, forcibly converted to the religion of the invaders, had their places of worship desecrated, destroyed and replaced with those belonging to the god of the invaders, and, after freedom from the British, saw their homeland chopped up into two has finally said: enough is enough. [1] Two days after the Supreme Court pronounced its verdict on the 99th Constitution Amendment Act and the National Judicial Appointments Commission (NJAC), declaring them to be ultra vires the Constitution, the Finance Minister, Arun Jaitley, said in his blog, “Indian democracy cannot be a tyranny of the unelected and if elected are undermined, democracy itself would be in danger.” (https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/njac-constitutions-will-upheld/article7781047.ece https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/njac-constitutions-wil...) [2] Sukhendu Sekhar Ray further said, "An opaque system has been adopted in the country where judges appoint judges. Taking advantage of this, the Narendra Modi government is making use of this." (https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/bjp-vs-tmc-in-west-bengal-this-time-over-state-bar-council-letter-to-cji/ar-AALxrUK https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/bjp-vs-tmc-in-west-beng...)

by sinyug 5y ago

srean 5y ago

> The same rules that got previous governments Completely agree. > Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. Laws that legislate rights of the Indian police force are one of the most archaic and are a carry over from the British times when its principal purpose was the subjugation of the population so that they could be exploited in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately, but very understandably, the current crop of politicians are unwilling to change that. As you surely know, judiciary enjoys more but not complete autonomy. There is a turf war going on right now with Modi government trying to maneuver into a position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. Technically India is not a democracy. Democracy is perhaps the best means of sharing power that we have, but that should not turn us blind to its egregious blind spots. Ku Klax Klan, the Nazis, slave ownership, etc etc had full support of the democratic institutions of their times. That does not make any of them right. India is having its own KKK moment right now.

sinyug 5y ago
> This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. No it hasn't. "Who watches the watchmen" is a question as old as time. > position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. I support that. He should have been more forceful on the NJAC issue and the act should have excluded all judges from the composition of the council. The council should have been composed purely of members of parliament. The funny thing is, every one from the BJP to the TMC has the exact same complaint about "judges appointing judges."[1][2] Judges encroaching on the territory of parliament isn't something that is unique to India. While it might have started in India when the SC invented the concept of the constitution having a "basic structure," with the Golaknath and Kesavananda Bharati judgments, you can see the same thing happening in the US with Marbury v. Madison within a few years of the establishment of the republic. Like politicians, judges are not immune to the trappings of power. > India is having its own KKK moment right now. You are mistaken. We are having a BLM/end-of-apartheid moment right now. The native population that was invaded, raped, plundered, enslaved, forcibly converted to the religion of the invaders, had their places of worship desecrated, destroyed and replaced with those belonging to the god of the invaders, and, after freedom from the British, saw their homeland chopped up into two has finally said: enough is enough. [1] Two days after the Supreme Court pronounced its verdict on the 99th Constitution Amendment Act and the National Judicial Appointments Commission (NJAC), declaring them to be ultra vires the Constitution, the Finance Minister, Arun Jaitley, said in his blog, “Indian democracy cannot be a tyranny of the unelected and if elected are undermined, democracy itself would be in danger.” (https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/njac-constitutions-will-upheld/article7781047.ece https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/njac-constitutions-wil...) [2] Sukhendu Sekhar Ray further said, "An opaque system has been adopted in the country where judges appoint judges. Taking advantage of this, the Narendra Modi government is making use of this." (https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/bjp-vs-tmc-in-west-bengal-this-time-over-state-bar-council-letter-to-cji/ar-AALxrUK https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/bjp-vs-tmc-in-west-beng...)