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In Germany in the 60s there was the concept of the "long march through the institutions", implying that the rebels of then would become the elites of tomorrow,

In Germany in the 60s there was the concept of the "long march through the institutions", implying that the rebels of then would become the elites of tomorrow, with the purpose of then putting into practice the revolutionary policies. It worked to a certain degree, many formerly left-wing policies have now become mainstream, but of course a lot of compromises had to be made and the ideals got watered down.

fallingknife 5y ago
The policies may have changed, but the people are the same.
- WJW 5y ago
  Many people alive in the 60s will have died by now, and the rest will have had 50-60 extra years of life experience. They're hardly the same, except in a very strict "person with the same name as then" sense.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > They're hardly the same, except in a very strict "person with the same name as then" sense. In terms of identity that is correct, but don't forget that when we refer to a particular person we are really using a label to point at a specific continuity of experience and agency through time, and unless qualified somehow (twelve-year-old Bob, Alice last year, you committed after yesterday's meeting, etc.) the default time point is either at the moment of reference or a moment just prior (the rest of the 4D 'worm' is incorporated transitively), and (again, by default) the 'now' pointer is thereafter updated continuously (at least in casual conversation in natural languages such as English). It is pretty rare for continuity of experience (and agency) to be broken, and outside of science fiction physical continuity never is, so it isn't too surprising that English (and other natural languages I'm familiar with) largely elide the point-in-time qualifier by default. We - both individually and in groups - are all of us Ships of Theseus, passing in the night.
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  The more specific criticism in Germany in the 60s was that may of the then-current elites had also been in positions of power two decades before, as (literal) Nazis.
brnt 5y ago
It would be interesting to know with whom is being compromised and in what direction the watering down happens. Now that is the force we fail to illuminate but I believe has tremendous power in our society.
- xondono 5y ago
  I’m guessing that force is reality.
  - gremloni 5y ago
    “Reality” the way it is used can be broadly subjective. Unless we’re referring to physical laws, almost everything is an abstraction that can be changed with the right societal impetus.
gremloni 5y ago
Ideals getting watered down is a sign of healthy compromise while still moving in the right direction.
VictorPath 5y ago
I read an English language article which I wish I could find. A girl was traveling after the DDR collapsed between east and west Berlin, or Nuremberg and Chemnitz or the like. She said on the old western side there were Turks all over, and red light districts and that sort of thing, whereas in the east it was still in many ways like the Germany in 1949. That in a number of ways, west Germany was more left wing than east Germany.

fallingknife 5y ago

The policies may have changed, but the people are the same.

WJW 5y ago
Many people alive in the 60s will have died by now, and the rest will have had 50-60 extra years of life experience. They're hardly the same, except in a very strict "person with the same name as then" sense.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > They're hardly the same, except in a very strict "person with the same name as then" sense. In terms of identity that is correct, but don't forget that when we refer to a particular person we are really using a label to point at a specific continuity of experience and agency through time, and unless qualified somehow (twelve-year-old Bob, Alice last year, you committed after yesterday's meeting, etc.) the default time point is either at the moment of reference or a moment just prior (the rest of the 4D 'worm' is incorporated transitively), and (again, by default) the 'now' pointer is thereafter updated continuously (at least in casual conversation in natural languages such as English). It is pretty rare for continuity of experience (and agency) to be broken, and outside of science fiction physical continuity never is, so it isn't too surprising that English (and other natural languages I'm familiar with) largely elide the point-in-time qualifier by default. We - both individually and in groups - are all of us Ships of Theseus, passing in the night.
KarlKemp 5y ago
The more specific criticism in Germany in the 60s was that may of the then-current elites had also been in positions of power two decades before, as (literal) Nazis.

brnt 5y ago

It would be interesting to know with whom is being compromised and in what direction the watering down happens. Now that is the force we fail to illuminate but I believe has tremendous power in our society.

xondono 5y ago
I’m guessing that force is reality.
- gremloni 5y ago
  “Reality” the way it is used can be broadly subjective. Unless we’re referring to physical laws, almost everything is an abstraction that can be changed with the right societal impetus.

gremloni 5y ago

Ideals getting watered down is a sign of healthy compromise while still moving in the right direction.

VictorPath 5y ago

I read an English language article which I wish I could find. A girl was traveling after the DDR collapsed between east and west Berlin, or Nuremberg and Chemnitz or the like. She said on the old western side there were Turks all over, and red light districts and that sort of thing, whereas in the east it was still in many ways like the Germany in 1949. That in a number of ways, west Germany was more left wing than east Germany.