5 ms·

Immigration. Make UBI only for citizens (and possibly permanent residents), and you'll have a large workforce who don't qualify for UBI and will have to take t

by dagw 5y ago

Immigration. Make UBI only for citizens (and possibly permanent residents), and you'll have a large workforce who don't qualify for UBI and will have to take those jobs. Add a possible path to citizenship and you'll have people lining up at border to do all those jobs. For the record, not a UBI proponent, nor do I think this is a good solution. It is however most likely solution, and how countries like Qatar have solved the problem.

bullfightonmars 5y ago
That sounds like the worst of both worlds! A codified two tier underclass. With one part in an unemplyed malaise, angry at having no purpose, and blind to the benefits they recieve. The other part an exploited class with no rights or benefits.
- kube-system 5y ago
  That situation you describe is already the status quo today in the US, just replace “UBI” with “SSN”.
  - rmah 5y ago
    Just as an FYI, all permanent residents in the USA can get a SSN. You don't need to be a citizen.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      I understand, however there is a significant population of people without one.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  It would only work, if the penalty for employing the illegal-to-hire were severe enough. As others have pointed out already, this is already true today: We use undocumented-workers, recent immigrants who don’t know better, and prison labor. Recently, prison labor use has been on the rise.
  - dagw 5y ago
    Recently, prison labor use has been on the rise. Maybe losing UBI for N months could be a new standard punishment for certain crimes or a condition for parole. We'll let you out of prison early for good behavior, but no UBI for 2 years, forcing you to take those jobs no one else wants.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      That’s interesting. For anyone with enough resources, though, it would be a slap on the wrist. For example, I feel that certain high financial crimes are better served by percentage of net-worth, rather than exact dollar-figures. Otherwise it’s a fixed cost of doing business.
Aunche 5y ago
This is a great way to make your citizens entitled and lazy.

by dagw 5y ago

bullfightonmars 5y ago

That sounds like the worst of both worlds! A codified two tier underclass. With one part in an unemplyed malaise, angry at having no purpose, and blind to the benefits they recieve. The other part an exploited class with no rights or benefits.

kube-system 5y ago
That situation you describe is already the status quo today in the US, just replace “UBI” with “SSN”.
- rmah 5y ago
  Just as an FYI, all permanent residents in the USA can get a SSN. You don't need to be a citizen.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I understand, however there is a significant population of people without one.
nobodyandproud 5y ago
It would only work, if the penalty for employing the illegal-to-hire were severe enough. As others have pointed out already, this is already true today: We use undocumented-workers, recent immigrants who don’t know better, and prison labor. Recently, prison labor use has been on the rise.
- dagw 5y ago
  Recently, prison labor use has been on the rise. Maybe losing UBI for N months could be a new standard punishment for certain crimes or a condition for parole. We'll let you out of prison early for good behavior, but no UBI for 2 years, forcing you to take those jobs no one else wants.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    That’s interesting. For anyone with enough resources, though, it would be a slap on the wrist. For example, I feel that certain high financial crimes are better served by percentage of net-worth, rather than exact dollar-figures. Otherwise it’s a fixed cost of doing business.

Aunche 5y ago

This is a great way to make your citizens entitled and lazy.