4 ms·

You barely looked then. A lot of people, myself included, would still work if they receive UBI. We'd just work less, plus it would be liberating and healthy fo

You barely looked then. A lot of people, myself included, would still work if they receive UBI. We'd just work less, plus it would be liberating and healthy for the mind to know that you can quit anytime without your survival being at stake. Nobody is claiming that the entire humanity will stop working under an UBI system.

michaelt 5y ago
> A lot of people, myself included, would still work Is your current job cleaning gas station toilets at 5am? Because if not, you haven't responded to the posts you're replying to.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  No. I have no problem cleaning mine however, or volunteering to clean up parks. Your point?
  - nsonha 5y ago
    Their point is the people currently working and sustains working such a terrible job will simply stop working, if they can secure the same income. The rest of the time maybe they learn to code (which they can fail), or not and they'll just fuck around. People will definite do something for sure. It's just I'm not sure why something has to be some sort of job or anything beneficial to society. There are a lot of people whose jobs are damaging to society actually.
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      Oh, absolutely, I'm not contesting anything that you've said. It's just that I'm fairly sure there will always be people willing to clean toilets for little extra money, especially if they're not abused and kept hostage of a minimum (but lifesaving for them) pay. And those conditions should be impossible in an UBI system.
      - hirako2000 5y ago
        I think you are missing the point: those who do certain jobs only do it to get fed and have shelter. There is no way to make them do it if they had the choice not to do it. The extra money? It wouldn't make enough a difference to climb the ladder, they would try their chance doing something else. That's assuming UBI would actually cover the basics. If that's half the needs to sustain their life I agree they would do that cleaning job, which is getting back to the original situation: job filled only because of lack of choice.
        pdimitar 5y ago
        We're talking past each other. I'm not saying it's going to be the same group of people who will re-pick cleaning jobs. There's plenty of people out there who need the occasional physical thankless labor (myself included). As long as it's no more than 3-4h shift IMO there will be people who will do it. In my eyes the key element is having the choice of not doing it. UBI might give us that or it might be a half-arsed measure that only does things on paper. We have no way of knowing that right now though.
        hirako2000 5y ago
        I can see that scenario yes. I like that aspect of UBI, provide choice to take on those laborious unfulfilling jobs. Looking forward to see a country implementing it, we could the all quit speculating about the outcomes.
        yazaddaruvala 5y ago
        I’m a software engineer and fortunately don’t need to clean bathrooms to feed myself. But to your GP’s point I would for $1 MM per bathroom. While I’m using hyperbole, what it shows is that, there is some non-exploitative wage for cleaning bathrooms and while it might be “too high” for the current business that need clean bathrooms, supply and demand “should” figure out the rest.
        hirako2000 5y ago
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Employers would finally realize that cleaners provide an important and valuable service and would have to compensate them accordingly. Adam Smith's invisible hand would adjust incomes accordingly.

michaelt 5y ago

> A lot of people, myself included, would still work Is your current job cleaning gas station toilets at 5am? Because if not, you haven't responded to the posts you're replying to.

pdimitar 5y ago
No. I have no problem cleaning mine however, or volunteering to clean up parks. Your point?
- nsonha 5y ago
  Their point is the people currently working and sustains working such a terrible job will simply stop working, if they can secure the same income. The rest of the time maybe they learn to code (which they can fail), or not and they'll just fuck around. People will definite do something for sure. It's just I'm not sure why something has to be some sort of job or anything beneficial to society. There are a lot of people whose jobs are damaging to society actually.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Oh, absolutely, I'm not contesting anything that you've said. It's just that I'm fairly sure there will always be people willing to clean toilets for little extra money, especially if they're not abused and kept hostage of a minimum (but lifesaving for them) pay. And those conditions should be impossible in an UBI system.
    - hirako2000 5y ago
      I think you are missing the point: those who do certain jobs only do it to get fed and have shelter. There is no way to make them do it if they had the choice not to do it. The extra money? It wouldn't make enough a difference to climb the ladder, they would try their chance doing something else. That's assuming UBI would actually cover the basics. If that's half the needs to sustain their life I agree they would do that cleaning job, which is getting back to the original situation: job filled only because of lack of choice.
      - pdimitar 5y ago
        We're talking past each other. I'm not saying it's going to be the same group of people who will re-pick cleaning jobs. There's plenty of people out there who need the occasional physical thankless labor (myself included). As long as it's no more than 3-4h shift IMO there will be people who will do it. In my eyes the key element is having the choice of not doing it. UBI might give us that or it might be a half-arsed measure that only does things on paper. We have no way of knowing that right now though.
        hirako2000 5y ago
        I can see that scenario yes. I like that aspect of UBI, provide choice to take on those laborious unfulfilling jobs. Looking forward to see a country implementing it, we could the all quit speculating about the outcomes.
      - yazaddaruvala 5y ago
        I’m a software engineer and fortunately don’t need to clean bathrooms to feed myself. But to your GP’s point I would for $1 MM per bathroom. While I’m using hyperbole, what it shows is that, there is some non-exploitative wage for cleaning bathrooms and while it might be “too high” for the current business that need clean bathrooms, supply and demand “should” figure out the rest.
        hirako2000 5y ago
kwhitefoot 5y ago
Employers would finally realize that cleaners provide an important and valuable service and would have to compensate them accordingly. Adam Smith's invisible hand would adjust incomes accordingly.