5 ms·

Considering Apple complied with this request, we can be absolutely 100% sure that they would never even consider complying with the request to abuse their “CSAM

Considering Apple complied with this request, we can be absolutely 100% sure that they would never even consider complying with the request to abuse their “CSAM detection” system to find dissident content. I’m just so sure of it. They would never.

luxuryballs 5y ago
glances at pre-order
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  Tell me, which alternatives are you considering?
  - eitland 5y ago
    Some alternatives: - optional: keep the current phone and refuse to upgrade it (a few months) - get a pinephone - check compatibility and get a rootable Android phone - dumbphone and pocket camera
    - shadowgovt 5y ago
      Pinephone is nowhere near feature compatible with either Android or iPhone platforms right now.
      - eitland 5y ago
        And neither of them are feature complete with Pine phone either which is the reason for this thread :-) Actually owning your own phone to the point of deciding yourself what runs on it and what does not and being able to repair it easily are two huge features when you start to think about it.
        shadowgovt 5y ago
        Unfortunately, if you ask the average user whether they want detailed control of what runs on their phone or a Facebook app, they're going to go for the Facebook app. Most users don't have any utility in detailed control. They don't even know what to do with it.
        skinkestek 5y ago
        > Most users don't have any utility in detailed control. They don't even know what to do with it. Can I chime in and say that: - Surprisingly many are getting uncomfortable with the current situation. - If this had been our collective conclusion 20 years ago we wouldn't be sitting here working on blazingly fast Linux dev machines running dirt cheap servers in vast clouds, we would have been stuck with Windows (and probably an inferior version to Windows 10, since without competition there's less pressure to perform)
        shadowgovt 5y ago
        Most developers aren't most users. A little over 50% of developers use some variant of desktop Linux; total desktop Linux userbase is about 2% worldwide. The closest most users get to "using the Cloud" is checking their Gmail accounts or updating some shared company Google Docs. Here in the rarefied air of HN, things look different than they do on the ground. Granted, developers have an outsized impact on what users will end up getting... But not by pretending PinePhone is anywhere near "ready for prime-time." I have one sitting on my desk right now; it's not. Rather, we should recognize the vast gap of work that needs to be done to get there and put the time in to get it there if we believe it's the right direction (and also recognize that if it's going to succeed in the marketplace, a lot of users are going to want something in PinePhone that's as easy to use for discovery and app maintenance as an app store; app stores introduced to users the concept "There is one simple and effective way to put apps on your phone," and they don't want to go back to the DIY days of yore. On the plus side, nothing about PinePhone requires only one app store).
  - charbonneau 5y ago
    Instead of getting a 13 Pro with 512GB, I'll take the 256GB version. That'll teach em a lesson!
  - lrem 5y ago
    Alternatives to what exactly? A lot of people have reached the point of needing an iPhone. Nope, Android won't do, because it's not an iPhone. Too much friction and learning curve to ever use anything else than an iPhone. Game over.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Do people really fetishize the blue bubble this much?
      - lrem 5y ago
        What is "the blue bubble"?
        smoldesu 5y ago
        Fully automated luxury space segregation. https://www.houkconsulting.com/2020/07/blue-green-bubbles-imessage/ https://www.houkconsulting.com/2020/07/blue-green-bubbles-im...
        kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
        Idiocy where people ridicule you for not having iMessage (and its features) because you have an Android phone and someone sends you messages on iMessage, it shows up as green for them, which creates a sense of inferiority in their eyes. (Android doesn't support iMessage unless you use something like AirMessage which requires a Mac, and iMessage to iMessage shows messages sent in blue, but SMS to iMessage, which is what Android users can use, shows a green message when iMessage users send messages). It is a clever marketing ploy where Apple users make Android users feel bad for using a product because the colour of their messages is different. Anecdotally (and randomly), I've seen "the blue bubble" can put additional pressure on males to get iPhones since "women use iPhones more, so I don't stand a chance if I have the green bubble." I hate iMessage. Because of the blue bubble phenomenon, there are a lot of people in the US with iPhones just out of the need (pressure) to use iMessage. iPhones are ridiculously popular with American teenagers (probably over 90% usage in rich areas) and I've heard it isn't necessarily about iPhones being better. No, it is literally about iMessage and winning the social approval of their peers. Since they have iMessage, suddenly you need to too. And so on. I don't believe marketing or features or whatnot is what makes the iPhone popular. No, it is the crushing social pressure of iMessage. F*ck iMessage.
  - nbzso 5y ago
    My alternative is to use smartphone only in exceptional use cases, as banking apps or emergency calls. For calls use simplest phone available. Actual phone calls are the best user experience. Emotionally fair and transparent. You don't have to write thousand emojis to express emotion. You don't wait someone to respond or ignore. Things are direct and effective. On the app side of things. There is no app that I need and I don't have on my laptop. 4G LTE Mifi with VPN. Intel core 2 duo / PureOS (removed ME). I am fan of big and powerful desktops and multi-monitor setups. Recently I discovered my dream desktop computer: https://shorturl.at/apqP3 https://shorturl.at/apqP3 https://shorturl.at/ceB06 https://shorturl.at/ceB06 If I want a photo, I have a small camera. If I know I will shoot, I grab my Leica. It is all about the information diet. I want my mind to be clear and my perceptions sharp. Smartphone UX and small screens in general are not the best way to consume information. iPad was cool middle ground solution, but I cannot trust Apple or any closed source software anymore. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_Ref...
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I'll be getting rid of my Android device once the PinePhone is back in stock. I only ever use my phone for SMS, calls and maybe a flashlight here and there, so it should be a pretty comfortable transition.
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ * I'm not affiliated with the product/company
nbzso 5y ago
People will find a way to justify it. It is nothing new under the sun. Glances at 3310:)
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ * I'm not affiliated with the product/company
throwaway4146 5y ago
Russian government is already preparing hashes of CSAM materials. This list of hashes will be distributed to a number of parties, that will do blocking/removal/reporting.
throwaway112347 5y ago
This is what was given up when people chose App Stores over the web. You want centralization and safety? You also get companies that must comply with local law. And very often, the law doesn't give a shit for your freedom. Especially not outside the 'West'.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

luxuryballs 5y ago

glances at pre-order

tinus_hn 5y ago
Tell me, which alternatives are you considering?
- eitland 5y ago
  Some alternatives: - optional: keep the current phone and refuse to upgrade it (a few months) - get a pinephone - check compatibility and get a rootable Android phone - dumbphone and pocket camera
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    Pinephone is nowhere near feature compatible with either Android or iPhone platforms right now.
    - eitland 5y ago
      And neither of them are feature complete with Pine phone either which is the reason for this thread :-) Actually owning your own phone to the point of deciding yourself what runs on it and what does not and being able to repair it easily are two huge features when you start to think about it.
      - shadowgovt 5y ago
        Unfortunately, if you ask the average user whether they want detailed control of what runs on their phone or a Facebook app, they're going to go for the Facebook app. Most users don't have any utility in detailed control. They don't even know what to do with it.
        skinkestek 5y ago
        > Most users don't have any utility in detailed control. They don't even know what to do with it. Can I chime in and say that: - Surprisingly many are getting uncomfortable with the current situation. - If this had been our collective conclusion 20 years ago we wouldn't be sitting here working on blazingly fast Linux dev machines running dirt cheap servers in vast clouds, we would have been stuck with Windows (and probably an inferior version to Windows 10, since without competition there's less pressure to perform)
        shadowgovt 5y ago
        Most developers aren't most users. A little over 50% of developers use some variant of desktop Linux; total desktop Linux userbase is about 2% worldwide. The closest most users get to "using the Cloud" is checking their Gmail accounts or updating some shared company Google Docs. Here in the rarefied air of HN, things look different than they do on the ground. Granted, developers have an outsized impact on what users will end up getting... But not by pretending PinePhone is anywhere near "ready for prime-time." I have one sitting on my desk right now; it's not. Rather, we should recognize the vast gap of work that needs to be done to get there and put the time in to get it there if we believe it's the right direction (and also recognize that if it's going to succeed in the marketplace, a lot of users are going to want something in PinePhone that's as easy to use for discovery and app maintenance as an app store; app stores introduced to users the concept "There is one simple and effective way to put apps on your phone," and they don't want to go back to the DIY days of yore. On the plus side, nothing about PinePhone requires only one app store).
- charbonneau 5y ago
  Instead of getting a 13 Pro with 512GB, I'll take the 256GB version. That'll teach em a lesson!
- lrem 5y ago
  Alternatives to what exactly? A lot of people have reached the point of needing an iPhone. Nope, Android won't do, because it's not an iPhone. Too much friction and learning curve to ever use anything else than an iPhone. Game over.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Do people really fetishize the blue bubble this much?
    - lrem 5y ago
      What is "the blue bubble"?
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Fully automated luxury space segregation. https://www.houkconsulting.com/2020/07/blue-green-bubbles-imessage/ https://www.houkconsulting.com/2020/07/blue-green-bubbles-im...
      - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
        Idiocy where people ridicule you for not having iMessage (and its features) because you have an Android phone and someone sends you messages on iMessage, it shows up as green for them, which creates a sense of inferiority in their eyes. (Android doesn't support iMessage unless you use something like AirMessage which requires a Mac, and iMessage to iMessage shows messages sent in blue, but SMS to iMessage, which is what Android users can use, shows a green message when iMessage users send messages). It is a clever marketing ploy where Apple users make Android users feel bad for using a product because the colour of their messages is different. Anecdotally (and randomly), I've seen "the blue bubble" can put additional pressure on males to get iPhones since "women use iPhones more, so I don't stand a chance if I have the green bubble." I hate iMessage. Because of the blue bubble phenomenon, there are a lot of people in the US with iPhones just out of the need (pressure) to use iMessage. iPhones are ridiculously popular with American teenagers (probably over 90% usage in rich areas) and I've heard it isn't necessarily about iPhones being better. No, it is literally about iMessage and winning the social approval of their peers. Since they have iMessage, suddenly you need to too. And so on. I don't believe marketing or features or whatnot is what makes the iPhone popular. No, it is the crushing social pressure of iMessage. F*ck iMessage.
- nbzso 5y ago
  My alternative is to use smartphone only in exceptional use cases, as banking apps or emergency calls. For calls use simplest phone available. Actual phone calls are the best user experience. Emotionally fair and transparent. You don't have to write thousand emojis to express emotion. You don't wait someone to respond or ignore. Things are direct and effective. On the app side of things. There is no app that I need and I don't have on my laptop. 4G LTE Mifi with VPN. Intel core 2 duo / PureOS (removed ME). I am fan of big and powerful desktops and multi-monitor setups. Recently I discovered my dream desktop computer: https://shorturl.at/apqP3 https://shorturl.at/apqP3 https://shorturl.at/ceB06 https://shorturl.at/ceB06 If I want a photo, I have a small camera. If I know I will shoot, I grab my Leica. It is all about the information diet. I want my mind to be clear and my perceptions sharp. Smartphone UX and small screens in general are not the best way to consume information. iPad was cool middle ground solution, but I cannot trust Apple or any closed source software anymore. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_Ref...
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I'll be getting rid of my Android device once the PinePhone is back in stock. I only ever use my phone for SMS, calls and maybe a flashlight here and there, so it should be a pretty comfortable transition.
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ * I'm not affiliated with the product/company

nbzso 5y ago

People will find a way to justify it. It is nothing new under the sun. Glances at 3310:)

ghostwriter 5y ago
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ * I'm not affiliated with the product/company

throwaway4146 5y ago

Russian government is already preparing hashes of CSAM materials. This list of hashes will be distributed to a number of parties, that will do blocking/removal/reporting.

throwaway112347 5y ago

This is what was given up when people chose App Stores over the web. You want centralization and safety? You also get companies that must comply with local law. And very often, the law doesn't give a shit for your freedom. Especially not outside the 'West'.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]