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Two caveats: > The Indian government represents the will of the Indian people. Not really representative of the will or the real issues that are bothering the

by wtmt 5y ago

Two caveats: > The Indian government represents the will of the Indian people. Not really representative of the will or the real issues that are bothering the people. The current government is more of a “show business” than a government (look at how the COVID vaccination drives are dampened and pumped up by sycophants just to please one person). > If anyone has a problem with that, they can always approach the courts. The Indian judicial system is excruciatingly slow, easily distracted by trivial matters (like BCCI corruption) and mostly doesn’t stop the government from bulldozing ahead while a case is pending. It took several years and across the terms of three or four chief justices of the Supreme Court to hear the right to privacy case. It took another year and several months to hear the Aadhaar case (which still has pending lawsuits), the cases on electoral bonds hasn’t been heard for years…all these are cases that affect every resident and the future of the country…the list goes on. Depending on the Indian judiciary to save the people from the executive is mostly futile.

sinyug 5y ago
> current government is more of a “show business” than a government You can criticize individual governments all you want. But the principle still stands. The Indian government is formed by people who have been directly chosen by the people of India. Except the brief period of insanity in the 1970s, we have had a good history of peaceful transfer of power from one government to the other. > sycophants I don't want to derail the conversation, but I am sure you would agree that this is hardly unique to the current disposition. > The Indian judicial system is excruciatingly slow I know. My complaints go far beyond that however. None of the judges are answerable to the people because none of them are elected. The SC even invented the collegium out of thin air. The second problem is that this makes their interference in executive matters even more worrisome because they cannot be voted out and impeaching them isn't particularly easy. Still, the judiciary is fairly independent and people who think that the government has exceeded its powers can always try to get justice. Whether they get it in time or not is a different matter, but the option is available (unlike in, say, China).
- srean 5y ago
  > None of the judges are answerable to the people because none of them are elected. Small mercies and that's by design. Actions of a lynch mob is very popular within the mob. Its an ironic example given the protection to the pro-government lynch-mobs in India. Lynch-mobs and pro-government it-cell trolls. Furthermore given by the proportion of the citizens who voted in this government, its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support because a sizeable proportion of the citizenry did not vote, possibly as a symbolic rejection of the poor quality of choices available. Its possible for a small group to manipulate democracy in the name of populism. History is replete with such examples. Police too needs to be removed from the ambit of politicians. In India they are nothing but henchmen on the hire, supplicant to politicians, serving their criminal aspirations rather than the people who pay them. That exalted position of 'will of the people' carries meagre weight if one can win elections by buying people TVs, promise them 15L (of course without delivering on it) and lynching communities that a more populous community does not like.
  - sinyug 5y ago
    > its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support The same rules that got previous governments into power got this one in as well. If this government cannot legitimately claim to be the voice of the Indian people, no one else can either. > Police too needs to be removed from the ambit of politicians. Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? If you don't believe in the 'will of the people' and further believe that most voters are stupid and easily misled, what you are essentially arguing is that democracy does not work in India and that it should be replaced by the rule of a group of "enlightened" but unelected people who are not answerable to the people they govern: an oligarchy.
    - srean 5y ago
      > The same rules that got previous governments Completely agree. > Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. Laws that legislate rights of the Indian police force are one of the most archaic and are a carry over from the British times when its principal purpose was the subjugation of the population so that they could be exploited in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately, but very understandably, the current crop of politicians are unwilling to change that. As you surely know, judiciary enjoys more but not complete autonomy. There is a turf war going on right now with Modi government trying to maneuver into a position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. Technically India is not a democracy. Democracy is perhaps the best means of sharing power that we have, but that should not turn us blind to its egregious blind spots. Ku Klax Klan, the Nazis, slave ownership, etc etc had full support of the democratic institutions of their times. That does not make any of them right. India is having its own KKK moment right now.

by wtmt 5y ago

sinyug 5y ago

> current government is more of a “show business” than a government You can criticize individual governments all you want. But the principle still stands. The Indian government is formed by people who have been directly chosen by the people of India. Except the brief period of insanity in the 1970s, we have had a good history of peaceful transfer of power from one government to the other. > sycophants I don't want to derail the conversation, but I am sure you would agree that this is hardly unique to the current disposition. > The Indian judicial system is excruciatingly slow I know. My complaints go far beyond that however. None of the judges are answerable to the people because none of them are elected. The SC even invented the collegium out of thin air. The second problem is that this makes their interference in executive matters even more worrisome because they cannot be voted out and impeaching them isn't particularly easy. Still, the judiciary is fairly independent and people who think that the government has exceeded its powers can always try to get justice. Whether they get it in time or not is a different matter, but the option is available (unlike in, say, China).

srean 5y ago
> None of the judges are answerable to the people because none of them are elected. Small mercies and that's by design. Actions of a lynch mob is very popular within the mob. Its an ironic example given the protection to the pro-government lynch-mobs in India. Lynch-mobs and pro-government it-cell trolls. Furthermore given by the proportion of the citizens who voted in this government, its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support because a sizeable proportion of the citizenry did not vote, possibly as a symbolic rejection of the poor quality of choices available. Its possible for a small group to manipulate democracy in the name of populism. History is replete with such examples. Police too needs to be removed from the ambit of politicians. In India they are nothing but henchmen on the hire, supplicant to politicians, serving their criminal aspirations rather than the people who pay them. That exalted position of 'will of the people' carries meagre weight if one can win elections by buying people TVs, promise them 15L (of course without delivering on it) and lynching communities that a more populous community does not like.
- sinyug 5y ago
  > its quite a stretch to claim that their actions enjoys wide support The same rules that got previous governments into power got this one in as well. If this government cannot legitimately claim to be the voice of the Indian people, no one else can either. > Police too needs to be removed from the ambit of politicians. Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? If you don't believe in the 'will of the people' and further believe that most voters are stupid and easily misled, what you are essentially arguing is that democracy does not work in India and that it should be replaced by the rule of a group of "enlightened" but unelected people who are not answerable to the people they govern: an oligarchy.
  - srean 5y ago
    > The same rules that got previous governments Completely agree. > Who would they report to? Some magically incorruptible entity? This has been worked out quite successfully in other democracies. Laws that legislate rights of the Indian police force are one of the most archaic and are a carry over from the British times when its principal purpose was the subjugation of the population so that they could be exploited in an orderly fashion. Unfortunately, but very understandably, the current crop of politicians are unwilling to change that. As you surely know, judiciary enjoys more but not complete autonomy. There is a turf war going on right now with Modi government trying to maneuver into a position of appointing judges who are more willing to dance to his tune. Technically India is not a democracy. Democracy is perhaps the best means of sharing power that we have, but that should not turn us blind to its egregious blind spots. Ku Klax Klan, the Nazis, slave ownership, etc etc had full support of the democratic institutions of their times. That does not make any of them right. India is having its own KKK moment right now.