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I'm fascinated by this because I'm beginning to suspect it's impossible to really escape uncanny valley, almost by definition. The CGI "style" seems to rely on

I'm fascinated by this because I'm beginning to suspect it's impossible to really escape uncanny valley, almost by definition. The CGI "style" seems to rely on battering the viewer into submission by packing as much detail and movement into every frame. But it's exhausting to watch and even if everything is perfectly photorealistic it's still kind of jarring. If what I'm seeing on the screen cannot exist physically then it doesn't matter how detailed it is - my brain responds with "That's just CGI" and it loses credibility. My partner works on opera productions and it's been really interesting watching high quality theatrical effects create believable settings on a stage. Physical objects have a weight and credibility that I suspect 2D CGI can never match. With skilled designers those physical objects can be made to do impossible things, but somehow they're still believable - which actually makes the experience more convincing and magical when they do something extraordinary or uncanny. There's also an element of sketching and leaving elements to the imagination of the audience. A lot of staged work implies something, and it turns out this makes the experience more engaging. CGI tries to make everything as explicit and busy and huge and detailed and overwhelming as possible, which actually has a distancing effect. We'll have immersive VR movies soon and we'll see if they work any better than 2D.

agumonkey 5y ago
I too felt that the uncanny valley would never be closed. That said superhero movies don't need to close the gap, just to provide the amplified organic real life movements that we expected from comics and animation shows. Also practical effects often have something else. Probably the fact that they live on atomic scale of complexity. Colors have more depth and diversity, particles too. Also it impacts actors around them a bit more than green screen studios which may influence the final result too. A slight anecdote, the first time I lit an LED (noob electronics kit) it felt so utterly magical to me. I was 30, did advanced studies, interacted with LEDs all my life, but "creating" light was so soul sucking. Same goes for other experiences. The brain sense when something lies on the plane of "it affect your life, body" rather than "it's only advanced sensory input fooling you". Your gut gets involved I guess. And I agree that modern tools push movie maker to explain too much, logify too much, show too much. A few 80s reboots were mostly trying to add a logical layer onto what was self sufficient already.
- carbine 5y ago
  You’re absolutely right. My partner works in VFX and this is precisely his beef with Marvel movies and a lot of the other box-office-optimized schlock that’s out there these days: zero respect for the physical rules of reality. You can give scenes, objects, people and motion a weight and physicality that feels real, but the current style is to inexplicably ignore all that and make this unrealistic stuff we see today. Given current technology it’s more a problem of how VFX is being used than anything.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    But these are comics based movies, it's excepted of the genre to go hyper just a bit. Same for anime. It's not made for reality, and actually it was the value of these movies, the ability to take physics, bend them just enough to reach wooh and call it a day. Just like comics are amplifications of physics to match our fantasies.
    - carbine 5y ago
      True BUT the best fantasy obeys some laws of physics so things feel real and more exciting. It’s the execution of the shot, not the content of the shot that’s the problem.
candiddevmike 5y ago
Why even have live action if the show is going to be mostly CGI anyway? Just make the entire thing animated. I really enjoyed Spiderverse, the Castlevania show on Netflix, and the What If series. Animation seems like the ultimate medium for storytelling and possibly uproots the Hollywood model of top tier casting--voice work seems way easier than acting.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I stopped watching stuff, but full cgi movies (say after the avatar tech was built), often lack grounding. Since everything is possible, there's too much going on.

agumonkey 5y ago

I too felt that the uncanny valley would never be closed. That said superhero movies don't need to close the gap, just to provide the amplified organic real life movements that we expected from comics and animation shows. Also practical effects often have something else. Probably the fact that they live on atomic scale of complexity. Colors have more depth and diversity, particles too. Also it impacts actors around them a bit more than green screen studios which may influence the final result too. A slight anecdote, the first time I lit an LED (noob electronics kit) it felt so utterly magical to me. I was 30, did advanced studies, interacted with LEDs all my life, but "creating" light was so soul sucking. Same goes for other experiences. The brain sense when something lies on the plane of "it affect your life, body" rather than "it's only advanced sensory input fooling you". Your gut gets involved I guess. And I agree that modern tools push movie maker to explain too much, logify too much, show too much. A few 80s reboots were mostly trying to add a logical layer onto what was self sufficient already.

carbine 5y ago
You’re absolutely right. My partner works in VFX and this is precisely his beef with Marvel movies and a lot of the other box-office-optimized schlock that’s out there these days: zero respect for the physical rules of reality. You can give scenes, objects, people and motion a weight and physicality that feels real, but the current style is to inexplicably ignore all that and make this unrealistic stuff we see today. Given current technology it’s more a problem of how VFX is being used than anything.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  But these are comics based movies, it's excepted of the genre to go hyper just a bit. Same for anime. It's not made for reality, and actually it was the value of these movies, the ability to take physics, bend them just enough to reach wooh and call it a day. Just like comics are amplifications of physics to match our fantasies.
  - carbine 5y ago
    True BUT the best fantasy obeys some laws of physics so things feel real and more exciting. It’s the execution of the shot, not the content of the shot that’s the problem.

candiddevmike 5y ago

Why even have live action if the show is going to be mostly CGI anyway? Just make the entire thing animated. I really enjoyed Spiderverse, the Castlevania show on Netflix, and the What If series. Animation seems like the ultimate medium for storytelling and possibly uproots the Hollywood model of top tier casting--voice work seems way easier than acting.

agumonkey 5y ago
I stopped watching stuff, but full cgi movies (say after the avatar tech was built), often lack grounding. Since everything is possible, there's too much going on.