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> The inability of the GIMP developers to work with others to incorporate needed features was the primary reason. I don't know. I felt like Adobe and other co

by bb88 5y ago

> The inability of the GIMP developers to work with others to incorporate needed features was the primary reason. I don't know. I felt like Adobe and other companies saw the market and wanted to win it. It's easier to grab marketshare when you can hire lots of developers to implement all the features your customers are asking. When Cinepaint announced that were moving off GTK+ and onto FLTK probably just accelerated the end of Cinepaint. I haven't seen an FLTK app in years. Does FLTK still look like it came from the 1990's/early 2000's, or did they upgrade the widgets to make them look more modern?

app4soft 5y ago
> I haven't seen an FLTK app in years. FLTK still widely used in various scientific apps. > Does FLTK still look like it came from the 1990's/early 2000's, or did they upgrade the widgets to make them look more modern? Probably the same. For example, here is screenshot[0] of the OpenVSP[1] - an actively maintained parametric 3D CAD app by NASA.[2] But also there is `fl_imgtk` — a small library for FLTK image toolkit, designed to use some useful effects in FLTK GUI (better image, better speed, better quality).[3] Yet another thing is `fltk-rs`[4] - Rust binding to FLTK, with custom theming module.[5] [0] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1352349523549577219 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1352349523549577219 [1] https://github.com/openvsp/openvsp https://github.com/openvsp/openvsp [2] http://openvsp.org http://openvsp.org [3] https://github.com/rageworx/fl_imgtk https://github.com/rageworx/fl_imgtk [4] https://github.com/fltk-rs https://github.com/fltk-rs [5] https://github.com/fltk-rs/fltk-theme https://github.com/fltk-rs/fltk-theme
- bb88 5y ago
  It has improved a bit from what I can see, but I wouldn't say it's "modern". Interesting. It still appears to have the issue with text flow I ran into years ago where text would overlap with the button outline, rather than increasing the button outline to accommodate the text. That was the one thing I didn't like about it. It made the GUI's look kinda unprofessional.
  - app4soft 5y ago
    > It still appears to have the issue with text flow I ran into years ago where text would overlap with the button outline, rather than increasing the button outline to accommodate the text. OpenVSP probably uses 'vanilla' FLTK, but there is no such issue on screenshots of Rangi's Tilemap Studio[0,1], where custom FLTK widget themes used. > That was the one thing I didn't like about it. It made the GUI's look kinda unprofessional. JFTR, Take a look on AzPainter[2] and its toolkit on top of X11.[3,4] [0] https://github.com/Rangi42/tilemap-studio https://github.com/Rangi42/tilemap-studio [1] https://hax.iimarckus.org/topic/7691/ https://hax.iimarckus.org/topic/7691/ [2] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1430517079346749440 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1430517079346749440 [3] http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/soft/index.html http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/soft/index.html [4] http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/about_mlk_en.html http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/about_mlk_en.html
rleigh 5y ago
I don't think it's worth comparing it with Adobe, since the developers have never really competed with it. It's its own thing, and the decisions and development roadmap stand on their own. Cinepaint got stuck as the fork diverged increasingly from the mainline code. They ended up on with a branch of GIMP 1.0.x using GTK+ 1.x, and the porting effort to bring it up-to-date with the GIMP mainline and GTK+ 2.x was insurmountable. I wasn't aware of the switch to FLTK, but last I looked FLTK was indeed primitive and dated. But very functional. The Cinepaint developers had very specific commercial priorities, somewhat at odds with the GIMP developers, and if porting to FLTK got them a working product to satisfy their needs, I can certainly see that being a reasonable choice. If anything, it really makes a point toward the maintainability of C GTK+ applications (many of us have been there; I ported over to C++/Qt myself).

by bb88 5y ago

app4soft 5y ago

> I haven't seen an FLTK app in years. FLTK still widely used in various scientific apps. > Does FLTK still look like it came from the 1990's/early 2000's, or did they upgrade the widgets to make them look more modern? Probably the same. For example, here is screenshot[0] of the OpenVSP[1] - an actively maintained parametric 3D CAD app by NASA.[2] But also there is `fl_imgtk` — a small library for FLTK image toolkit, designed to use some useful effects in FLTK GUI (better image, better speed, better quality).[3] Yet another thing is `fltk-rs`[4] - Rust binding to FLTK, with custom theming module.[5] [0] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1352349523549577219 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1352349523549577219 [1] https://github.com/openvsp/openvsp https://github.com/openvsp/openvsp [2] http://openvsp.org http://openvsp.org [3] https://github.com/rageworx/fl_imgtk https://github.com/rageworx/fl_imgtk [4] https://github.com/fltk-rs https://github.com/fltk-rs [5] https://github.com/fltk-rs/fltk-theme https://github.com/fltk-rs/fltk-theme

bb88 5y ago
It has improved a bit from what I can see, but I wouldn't say it's "modern". Interesting. It still appears to have the issue with text flow I ran into years ago where text would overlap with the button outline, rather than increasing the button outline to accommodate the text. That was the one thing I didn't like about it. It made the GUI's look kinda unprofessional.
- app4soft 5y ago
  > It still appears to have the issue with text flow I ran into years ago where text would overlap with the button outline, rather than increasing the button outline to accommodate the text. OpenVSP probably uses 'vanilla' FLTK, but there is no such issue on screenshots of Rangi's Tilemap Studio[0,1], where custom FLTK widget themes used. > That was the one thing I didn't like about it. It made the GUI's look kinda unprofessional. JFTR, Take a look on AzPainter[2] and its toolkit on top of X11.[3,4] [0] https://github.com/Rangi42/tilemap-studio https://github.com/Rangi42/tilemap-studio [1] https://hax.iimarckus.org/topic/7691/ https://hax.iimarckus.org/topic/7691/ [2] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1430517079346749440 https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1430517079346749440 [3] http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/soft/index.html http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/soft/index.html [4] http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/about_mlk_en.html http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/about_mlk_en.html

rleigh 5y ago

I don't think it's worth comparing it with Adobe, since the developers have never really competed with it. It's its own thing, and the decisions and development roadmap stand on their own. Cinepaint got stuck as the fork diverged increasingly from the mainline code. They ended up on with a branch of GIMP 1.0.x using GTK+ 1.x, and the porting effort to bring it up-to-date with the GIMP mainline and GTK+ 2.x was insurmountable. I wasn't aware of the switch to FLTK, but last I looked FLTK was indeed primitive and dated. But very functional. The Cinepaint developers had very specific commercial priorities, somewhat at odds with the GIMP developers, and if porting to FLTK got them a working product to satisfy their needs, I can certainly see that being a reasonable choice. If anything, it really makes a point toward the maintainability of C GTK+ applications (many of us have been there; I ported over to C++/Qt myself).