5 ms·

Sadly, this article doesn’t actually deliver of the headline and tell you how they did it. A lot of people, including some extremely powerful media executives,

by moomin 5y ago

Sadly, this article doesn’t actually deliver of the headline and tell you how they did it. A lot of people, including some extremely powerful media executives, would like to know.

betwixthewires 5y ago
I came to say this and also gripe about the fact that this franchise of franchises has gobbled up cinema and contributed in lowering the quality of mainstream film across the board. I personally cannot stand any of the Disney properties, particularly marvel and star wars, or their competitors anymore who are basically copying them to compete and also making their products mediocre.
- vidanay 5y ago
  I'm waiting for the day (not in a good way) when they announce the Star Wars/MCU crossover trilogy movies.
  - lbotos 5y ago
    As a MtG nerd, this day is here and I mourn it.
- cptskippy 5y ago
  I'm not sure they're the reason, just a symptom of the current system that only rewards box office hits.
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  Do you have evidence that they have lowered tbe quality of cinema across the board? I see a studio that consistently produces content with excellent visual quality, excellent audio quality, consistently high quality acting, decent plot twists, cross-film synergy (even working across studios), and even morally ambiguous characters. I don't see what's missing, aside from a failure to play to elitist tendencies that assume mainstream=bad. The reflexive assumption that something is popular is automatically trash (I see this with pop music a lot, too) seems like it is predicated on a fundamentally bizarre conception of 'good'-ness or quality.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    You're asking for proof that a subjective medium of expression has changed measurably in quality? I don't have proof, just an opinion. The storylines and plot lines are all formulaic and one dimensional, the characters have basically no depth to them, the name of the game is throw a budget at graphics and rake in the money, and finally, lots of expressive elements are off the table if they want the Chinese market, which they do. I don't know how many times people can watch the good guy fire laser beams at the bad guy and win and still enjoy it, maybe one day they'll have to mix it up and have the good guys lose until the sequel comes out in which they undo the loss and still win, predictably.
    - thom 5y ago
      I feel the same way about endless prestige dramas involving guys doing crimes and then agonising about it. I don’t believe any of us is starved for content though.
      - moomin 5y ago
        You're not wrong that much prestige drama has become just as tired and formulaic as the average procedural. The point was ably made in this profile of Jane the Virgin's showrunner: https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/jane-the-virgin-jennie-snyder-urman-profile.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/jane-the-virgin-jennie-snyde...
    - n8cpdx 5y ago
      Maybe I'm too much of a nerd, but I think quality can, in general, be defined and measured. I get that you don't like the genera of action films, and that's fine. But there are moments of the film between the laser beams firing. Sometimes long moments. Sometimes the majority of the film. Are there any films that aren't formulaic? Or are original in some way? As far as I can tell, the trend is: human or human surrogate faces challenge or complication that is resolved. Often following a heroes journey pattern. Sometimes the enemy is nature. Sometimes man itself (I would interpret as another form of nature, but not so useful). Sometimes the challenge is loss. Sometimes the challenge is fear. Sometimes it's fear of loss. Sometimes it's a mating attempt. Sometimes it's an existential risk. Of course you can dress up the underlying formula a variety of ways. If your a french or whatever filmmaker and want to pander to artsy types you add lots of long slow scenes where nothing happens. Sometimes you spice it up with a gay kid or something. Maybe throw in a racial aspect to make a statement. I don't know how many times people can look at any human endeavor and not realize it is all bullshit. But if it is all meaningless bullshit (in a meaningless universe) then perhaps none of it is? Perhaps many MCU entries are technical achievements with interesting twists that are exemplary specimens of exactly the type of film they are meant to be. I'm not asking for proof, I'm asking for evidence of anything beyond a facile, intellectually lazy approach to media criticism. And believe me, there are a lot of flaws in modern Hollywood, but action movies being too well produced isn't really one of them.
judge2020 5y ago
Ya, this article would be best suited to drop the 'how'.
cm2012 5y ago
Short answer is willingness to take risks and good taste. For risks: 1) Casting unknown or washed up actors in leading roles 2) Switching up the genre with every movie. Iron Man was a classic super hero movie, Thor was fish out of water, Captain America was a spy movie, Ant Man was a heist movie, Guardians a space comedy, etc. 3) Forcing people to watch past movies to understand new ones. Accepted wisdom before Marvel was no one would do that so you have to dumb it down.
- toyg 5y ago
  4) Jon Favreau. He's the modern Steven Spielberg, everything he touches turns to gold.
- bawolff 5y ago
  I think the thing is that they both do and don't do that at the same time, so they get the benefits but not the blowback. Sure they take some risk with casting, but they take very few risks in other areas. How many of the plots are basically quipy selfish hero learns to stop acting in selfish self-interest long enough to save the world, well still being a little bit of a dick so as not to be boring? Half. Don't get me wrong, its a good groove, but it doesn't scream taking risks. Similarly with 2- sure they switch out the genere,but its always using the trappings superficially. Capt may be a spy movie, but just barely and not a very good one. Its a good super hero movie, but i wouldn't watch it if i wanted a good spy movie, and similar for all the others. In the end, they manage to make it different enough to not feel repetitive, well still being similar enough that the risk of making something that doesn't work is low.
prfctstrm0 5y ago
Success in numerous contexts; hiring diversity, a generation of parents and DINKs with cash who grew up on the material, sincere effort at complex emotional themes, world building attract diverse crowds. Versus DC that went with two gorillas and a hot chick formula. They got props for a fish movie after floundering about. Marvel is vertically integrated all the latest social memes. Comics have a long history of taking life seriously and being socially aware; Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Green Arrows sidekick Speedy being a dope fiend was written in 1971; really all they had to do was a detailed translation of the material rather than treat it like camp.

by moomin 5y ago

Sadly, this article doesn’t actually deliver of the headline and tell you how they did it. A lot of people, including some extremely powerful media executives, would like to know.

betwixthewires 5y ago

I came to say this and also gripe about the fact that this franchise of franchises has gobbled up cinema and contributed in lowering the quality of mainstream film across the board. I personally cannot stand any of the Disney properties, particularly marvel and star wars, or their competitors anymore who are basically copying them to compete and also making their products mediocre.

vidanay 5y ago
I'm waiting for the day (not in a good way) when they announce the Star Wars/MCU crossover trilogy movies.
- lbotos 5y ago
  As a MtG nerd, this day is here and I mourn it.
cptskippy 5y ago
I'm not sure they're the reason, just a symptom of the current system that only rewards box office hits.
n8cpdx 5y ago
Do you have evidence that they have lowered tbe quality of cinema across the board? I see a studio that consistently produces content with excellent visual quality, excellent audio quality, consistently high quality acting, decent plot twists, cross-film synergy (even working across studios), and even morally ambiguous characters. I don't see what's missing, aside from a failure to play to elitist tendencies that assume mainstream=bad. The reflexive assumption that something is popular is automatically trash (I see this with pop music a lot, too) seems like it is predicated on a fundamentally bizarre conception of 'good'-ness or quality.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  You're asking for proof that a subjective medium of expression has changed measurably in quality? I don't have proof, just an opinion. The storylines and plot lines are all formulaic and one dimensional, the characters have basically no depth to them, the name of the game is throw a budget at graphics and rake in the money, and finally, lots of expressive elements are off the table if they want the Chinese market, which they do. I don't know how many times people can watch the good guy fire laser beams at the bad guy and win and still enjoy it, maybe one day they'll have to mix it up and have the good guys lose until the sequel comes out in which they undo the loss and still win, predictably.
  - thom 5y ago
    I feel the same way about endless prestige dramas involving guys doing crimes and then agonising about it. I don’t believe any of us is starved for content though.
    - moomin 5y ago
      You're not wrong that much prestige drama has become just as tired and formulaic as the average procedural. The point was ably made in this profile of Jane the Virgin's showrunner: https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/jane-the-virgin-jennie-snyder-urman-profile.html https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/jane-the-virgin-jennie-snyde...
  - n8cpdx 5y ago
    Maybe I'm too much of a nerd, but I think quality can, in general, be defined and measured. I get that you don't like the genera of action films, and that's fine. But there are moments of the film between the laser beams firing. Sometimes long moments. Sometimes the majority of the film. Are there any films that aren't formulaic? Or are original in some way? As far as I can tell, the trend is: human or human surrogate faces challenge or complication that is resolved. Often following a heroes journey pattern. Sometimes the enemy is nature. Sometimes man itself (I would interpret as another form of nature, but not so useful). Sometimes the challenge is loss. Sometimes the challenge is fear. Sometimes it's fear of loss. Sometimes it's a mating attempt. Sometimes it's an existential risk. Of course you can dress up the underlying formula a variety of ways. If your a french or whatever filmmaker and want to pander to artsy types you add lots of long slow scenes where nothing happens. Sometimes you spice it up with a gay kid or something. Maybe throw in a racial aspect to make a statement. I don't know how many times people can look at any human endeavor and not realize it is all bullshit. But if it is all meaningless bullshit (in a meaningless universe) then perhaps none of it is? Perhaps many MCU entries are technical achievements with interesting twists that are exemplary specimens of exactly the type of film they are meant to be. I'm not asking for proof, I'm asking for evidence of anything beyond a facile, intellectually lazy approach to media criticism. And believe me, there are a lot of flaws in modern Hollywood, but action movies being too well produced isn't really one of them.

judge2020 5y ago

Ya, this article would be best suited to drop the 'how'.

cm2012 5y ago

Short answer is willingness to take risks and good taste. For risks: 1) Casting unknown or washed up actors in leading roles 2) Switching up the genre with every movie. Iron Man was a classic super hero movie, Thor was fish out of water, Captain America was a spy movie, Ant Man was a heist movie, Guardians a space comedy, etc. 3) Forcing people to watch past movies to understand new ones. Accepted wisdom before Marvel was no one would do that so you have to dumb it down.

toyg 5y ago
4) Jon Favreau. He's the modern Steven Spielberg, everything he touches turns to gold.
bawolff 5y ago
I think the thing is that they both do and don't do that at the same time, so they get the benefits but not the blowback. Sure they take some risk with casting, but they take very few risks in other areas. How many of the plots are basically quipy selfish hero learns to stop acting in selfish self-interest long enough to save the world, well still being a little bit of a dick so as not to be boring? Half. Don't get me wrong, its a good groove, but it doesn't scream taking risks. Similarly with 2- sure they switch out the genere,but its always using the trappings superficially. Capt may be a spy movie, but just barely and not a very good one. Its a good super hero movie, but i wouldn't watch it if i wanted a good spy movie, and similar for all the others. In the end, they manage to make it different enough to not feel repetitive, well still being similar enough that the risk of making something that doesn't work is low.

prfctstrm0 5y ago

Success in numerous contexts; hiring diversity, a generation of parents and DINKs with cash who grew up on the material, sincere effort at complex emotional themes, world building attract diverse crowds. Versus DC that went with two gorillas and a hot chick formula. They got props for a fish movie after floundering about. Marvel is vertically integrated all the latest social memes. Comics have a long history of taking life seriously and being socially aware; Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Green Arrows sidekick Speedy being a dope fiend was written in 1971; really all they had to do was a detailed translation of the material rather than treat it like camp.