5 ms·

This body of research is expanding far quicker than I would have imagined pre-pandemic. A true silver lining, I have to say. mRNA vaccine breakthroughs are occu

This body of research is expanding far quicker than I would have imagined pre-pandemic. A true silver lining, I have to say. mRNA vaccine breakthroughs are occurring in cancer research, too. Human trials happening soon! https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2021/09/13-mrna-future-cancer.htm https://www.futuretimeline.net/blog/2021/09/13-mrna-future-c...

bamboozled 5y ago
I have to say that we’re all being pretty highly optimistic since the first production grade mRNA vaccine looks like it doesn’t really give resistance for a long time to Covid. It’s cool tech but it’s not magic.
- uncoder0 5y ago
  Yeah, true the mRNA SARS-COV vaccines aren't all that effective after many months however, it could work better for things that don't mutate as much as Coronaviruses. It could still be magic. We just don't know yet it's all relatively new tech medically speaking and this is the current vaccines using the tech are the first ever widespread usage of the tech. We'll see how it goes long-term No one really knows how well or not it's going to go.
  - catdog 5y ago
    Yes it's way too early to draw conclusions. Think currently mRNA vaccines still stand strong compared to what else is on the market. Also one of the big promises of the mRNA technology is increased development speed so it might especially be helpful for things which mutate fast.
    - laurent92 5y ago
      Can it pose a risk of making other mutations? and adding too much variation that ecosystems are not ready to defend against? All the arguments of the GMO, repeated (although it seems the GMO argument is settled).
      - webreac 5y ago
        The GMO argument is settled ? This surprise me. AFAIK, it is settled in Europe, but not in America where it is still authorized. Maybe I am wrong, I am not american.
        dng88 5y ago
        And UK just have a doc to open the debate again. Not settled.
- steve_taylor 5y ago
  COVID-19 vaccines’ long term efficacy has nothing to do with this.
- zulban 5y ago
  >looks like it doesn’t really give resistance for a long time to Covid. Easy to measure correlates of protection like antibodies wane over time, as expected from any vaccine. T-cells say a lot more about long term protection but are harder to measure. Generally, alarmist antibody research makes the headlines instead. I recommend the TWiV podcast by virologists and immunologists, which notably existed before covid.
  - avsteele 5y ago
    There are numerous bodies of data supporting waning immunity at this point. This data is based on real-world breakthrough rates, not antibody counts. Two examples: 1) Israel data shows high level of breakthrough infection. This is the basis for their booster policy: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-doctors-find-severe-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-mostly-older-sicker-2021-08-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-doctors-fi... 2) Moderna just released their own study showing reinfection rates at 2x at 13+ months relative to <8 months post second dose. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-highlights-new-clinical-data-its-covid-19-vaccine https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...
    - ummonk 5y ago
      It’s weird that there is so little mention of natural immunity as a cause of declining measured “effectiveness”. The vaccine effectiveness should trend towards 0 as the unvaccinated population acquires natural immunity. That doesn’t mean the vaccine isn’t working.
      - throwuxiytayq 5y ago
        I don't understand this mechanism. Can you elaborate? How does the unvaccinated population influence measured vaccine effectiveness?
        avsteele 5y ago
        Imagine a study where half gets vax and half doesn't. If population is pristine at outset at end of study VE is 1-ratio between people who get COVID in the two arms. Now, if there is any prior exposure to the disease among participants (this isn't always known, esp. for something like COVID), and if there is any natural immunity that accrues, this will pull that ratio towards 1 (VE=0)
- schleck8 5y ago
  The mRNA vaccines have proven to be more effective than the traditional ones (J&J, AstraZeneca) no?
  - rjzzleep 5y ago
    J&J and AZ aren't really traditional either. They're Adenovirus based vaccines. Research has been out for a while, but I think there have been many production use Adenovirus based vaccines. AZ is conceptually similar to the mRNA vaccines actually. They all target the Spike protein. The Chinese vaccine is an inactivated virus kind of vaccine. That's what you would call traditional. Low protection from infection, but supposedly high protection from dangerous disease onset.
    - neuronic 5y ago
      The last point is all that counts. Nobody cares about Corona infections if they don’t fill up hospitals or cause Long COVID.
      - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
        Not necessarily. As I understand it, several common viruses cause more serious disease further down the line. Even if you didn't develop warts, you wouldn't want HPV because some strains can develop into cervical cancer, for example.
        neuronic 5y ago
        Yes, but we won't shut down society for 15 years to figure that one out.
esturk 5y ago
Competition between 2 different approaches is great. It will only push each other to be more effective in the long run.

bamboozled 5y ago

I have to say that we’re all being pretty highly optimistic since the first production grade mRNA vaccine looks like it doesn’t really give resistance for a long time to Covid. It’s cool tech but it’s not magic.

uncoder0 5y ago
Yeah, true the mRNA SARS-COV vaccines aren't all that effective after many months however, it could work better for things that don't mutate as much as Coronaviruses. It could still be magic. We just don't know yet it's all relatively new tech medically speaking and this is the current vaccines using the tech are the first ever widespread usage of the tech. We'll see how it goes long-term No one really knows how well or not it's going to go.
- catdog 5y ago
  Yes it's way too early to draw conclusions. Think currently mRNA vaccines still stand strong compared to what else is on the market. Also one of the big promises of the mRNA technology is increased development speed so it might especially be helpful for things which mutate fast.
  - laurent92 5y ago
    Can it pose a risk of making other mutations? and adding too much variation that ecosystems are not ready to defend against? All the arguments of the GMO, repeated (although it seems the GMO argument is settled).
    - webreac 5y ago
      The GMO argument is settled ? This surprise me. AFAIK, it is settled in Europe, but not in America where it is still authorized. Maybe I am wrong, I am not american.
      - dng88 5y ago
        And UK just have a doc to open the debate again. Not settled.
steve_taylor 5y ago
COVID-19 vaccines’ long term efficacy has nothing to do with this.
zulban 5y ago
>looks like it doesn’t really give resistance for a long time to Covid. Easy to measure correlates of protection like antibodies wane over time, as expected from any vaccine. T-cells say a lot more about long term protection but are harder to measure. Generally, alarmist antibody research makes the headlines instead. I recommend the TWiV podcast by virologists and immunologists, which notably existed before covid.
- avsteele 5y ago
  There are numerous bodies of data supporting waning immunity at this point. This data is based on real-world breakthrough rates, not antibody counts. Two examples: 1) Israel data shows high level of breakthrough infection. This is the basis for their booster policy: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-doctors-find-severe-covid-19-breakthrough-cases-mostly-older-sicker-2021-08-20/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-doctors-fi... 2) Moderna just released their own study showing reinfection rates at 2x at 13+ months relative to <8 months post second dose. https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-highlights-new-clinical-data-its-covid-19-vaccine https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d...
  - ummonk 5y ago
    It’s weird that there is so little mention of natural immunity as a cause of declining measured “effectiveness”. The vaccine effectiveness should trend towards 0 as the unvaccinated population acquires natural immunity. That doesn’t mean the vaccine isn’t working.
    - throwuxiytayq 5y ago
      I don't understand this mechanism. Can you elaborate? How does the unvaccinated population influence measured vaccine effectiveness?
      - avsteele 5y ago
        Imagine a study where half gets vax and half doesn't. If population is pristine at outset at end of study VE is 1-ratio between people who get COVID in the two arms. Now, if there is any prior exposure to the disease among participants (this isn't always known, esp. for something like COVID), and if there is any natural immunity that accrues, this will pull that ratio towards 1 (VE=0)
schleck8 5y ago
The mRNA vaccines have proven to be more effective than the traditional ones (J&J, AstraZeneca) no?
- rjzzleep 5y ago
  J&J and AZ aren't really traditional either. They're Adenovirus based vaccines. Research has been out for a while, but I think there have been many production use Adenovirus based vaccines. AZ is conceptually similar to the mRNA vaccines actually. They all target the Spike protein. The Chinese vaccine is an inactivated virus kind of vaccine. That's what you would call traditional. Low protection from infection, but supposedly high protection from dangerous disease onset.
  - neuronic 5y ago
    The last point is all that counts. Nobody cares about Corona infections if they don’t fill up hospitals or cause Long COVID.
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      Not necessarily. As I understand it, several common viruses cause more serious disease further down the line. Even if you didn't develop warts, you wouldn't want HPV because some strains can develop into cervical cancer, for example.
      - neuronic 5y ago
        Yes, but we won't shut down society for 15 years to figure that one out.

esturk 5y ago

Competition between 2 different approaches is great. It will only push each other to be more effective in the long run.