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This action was performed in a specific country - Iran. I am sure it was illegal there. Isn't that enough?

flyinglizard 5y ago
There are many things which are illegal in Iran yet practiced widely, like consuming alcohol or being attracted to your own gender. I wouldn't use the Iranian book of laws as a moral compass myself, but to each their own.
- benbenbenjerry 5y ago
  How bizarre for you to sidestep the issue and go after issues with the laws of Iran! In what country is it legal to assassinate a scientist?
  - flyinglizard 5y ago
    GP asked if the fact it's illegal in Iran is not enough, and I say the Iranian code of law has no implications on what I think is moral or not. Personally I think that it is not outside any moral boundaries to assassinate a scientist which is working on WMDs. In fact, I'll claim the opposite: if you are a leader of a country which you know is potentially targeted by WMDs and you have the strategic and tactical opportunity to assassinate the people working on that program, then you should. Going back to laws, being a scientist doesn't give you any kind of immunity to any law. It shouldn’t grant you immunity here. Once you work on military programs, it's all fair game.
  - pinewurst 5y ago
    We considered shooting Werner Heisenberg during WW2 if there was convincing evidence he was moving a Nazi atomic weapons program along. Certainly that would have been against German or Swiss (this was during a visit to Switzerland) law.
    - refenestrator 5y ago
      A key factor there is the word 'war'.
      - true_religion 5y ago
        Did Iran and Israel ever sign a peace treaty? In 2020, the UAE normalized relations with Israel, and many countries took the opportunity to remind everyone that even if we are all dying of COVID, they would prefer that Israel go first.
        refenestrator 5y ago
        It's not fricking world war 2, no matter the technicalities.
        throwaway245234 5y ago
        If a country you're at war with and whose leadership has stated that they intend to annihilate you is on the verge of developing nuclear weapons, the stakes are arguably WW2-tier.
        refenestrator 5y ago
        Conversely, American and Israeli politicians constantly talk about taking out Iran, making nukes a necessity for their self-defense. In both cases it's mostly posturing, but killing scientists and saying we had to, it's self defense is especially disgusting to me.
  - FridayoLeary 5y ago
    He's a nuclear scientist. Working on a nuclear bomb. For Iran. Wich is run by radical extremists. He's essentially a terrorist. Albeit one who goes around in a white lab coat as opposed to a machine gun and who has never harmed a fly but is more dangerous than the entire taliban put together.
    - coder583 5y ago
      and mossad/israel isn't a terorrist state? Are you serious?
    - coralreef 5y ago
      TIL Albert Einstein was a terrorist
    - nxmnxm99 5y ago
      US “war on terror” propaganda really never dies huh. Don’t fall in line with US global hegemony? Terrorist. Even if you’re an ancient culture who pose no rational threat to American people. Whatever cognitive dissonance allows you to think carpet bombing brown people in another country with drones is morally justified I guess
      - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
        Who are you arguing with? Nobody in this line of discussion said anything about the United States not also being considered terrorists. There can be terrorists on both sides but it looks like the US is living rent free in your head.
        nxmnxm99 5y ago
        Lmao what? I’m responding to a comment suggesting an offensive like this is justified because they’re “terrorists”. But sure, everyone’s a terrorist, great contribution.
        halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  What are you talking about, according to the former Iranian president Iran has no homosexuals problem. See? Problem solved!
tomp 5y ago
If Iran could (i.e. had the technological capabilities to) meaningfully retaliate against Israel (without suffering too much consequences), they very likely would.
bawolff 5y ago
Were you under the impression that groups like Mossad, CIA, etc were law abiding groups? Their entire mission is to do illegal shit to forward their countries' national interest.
- kkoncevicius 5y ago
  So if these are not "law abiding" groups, then by definition part of what they do is illegal. Which is the word I used in my comment. I don't understand these replies.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    I'm a different person than the one who said nothing is illegal. I think nothing is illegal in international relations is a cop-out answer (and not technically true. I dont know about this particular act, but there are plenty of illegal things under int law). Technically yes - its unlikely to be resolved by a court. However i think most people agree that in general assainations are at least morally repugant (although im sure some people think its justified sometimes). Anyways, lots of countries (Iran included) fund these type of spy groups. They do bad shit. That is their function. I imagine their masters think the ends justify means. Regardless, complaining that spy agencies are unethical is like complaining the mafia is unethical. Its just something that basically goes without saying.
    - kkoncevicius 5y ago
      I agree with everything you wrote here, but we talk past each other. The article was disturbing and it left an impression on me. There aren't many articles bragging about assassinations; CIA doesn't do that and if it did there would be domestic opposition. Yet the tone of this article makes it clear that they are not worried about that. That's why I wrote the original comment. It's not about "complaining that spy agencies are unethical". Deep down I just don't like what it represents and I don't think any post-hoc rationalisation will change that.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
m-p-3 5y ago
A legal system only has influence within its borders though (other than extradition treaties). And since the drone can't be prosecuted and the operators are outside of the borders, what can you do but give them bad press?
- true_religion 5y ago
  A lot of times when people say illegal, they really want to say immoral but that word sounds too out of place in common language. Is it okay to assassinate scientists? How about tech CEOs and software engineers? To me, the most troubling thing is that Iran seems to do nothing in response.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    They aren't doing nothing, just nothing that can be publicized.
sgregnt 5y ago
In many countries authoruzed military operation on foreign territory against what is perceived as existential thread to its existence is legal. So it is legal by Israeli law, isn't this enough?

There are many things which are illegal in Iran yet practiced widely, like consuming alcohol or being attracted to your own gender. I wouldn't use the Iranian book of laws as a moral compass myself, but to each their own.

benbenbenjerry 5y ago
How bizarre for you to sidestep the issue and go after issues with the laws of Iran! In what country is it legal to assassinate a scientist?
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  GP asked if the fact it's illegal in Iran is not enough, and I say the Iranian code of law has no implications on what I think is moral or not. Personally I think that it is not outside any moral boundaries to assassinate a scientist which is working on WMDs. In fact, I'll claim the opposite: if you are a leader of a country which you know is potentially targeted by WMDs and you have the strategic and tactical opportunity to assassinate the people working on that program, then you should. Going back to laws, being a scientist doesn't give you any kind of immunity to any law. It shouldn’t grant you immunity here. Once you work on military programs, it's all fair game.
- pinewurst 5y ago
  We considered shooting Werner Heisenberg during WW2 if there was convincing evidence he was moving a Nazi atomic weapons program along. Certainly that would have been against German or Swiss (this was during a visit to Switzerland) law.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    A key factor there is the word 'war'.
    - true_religion 5y ago
      Did Iran and Israel ever sign a peace treaty? In 2020, the UAE normalized relations with Israel, and many countries took the opportunity to remind everyone that even if we are all dying of COVID, they would prefer that Israel go first.
      - refenestrator 5y ago
        It's not fricking world war 2, no matter the technicalities.
        throwaway245234 5y ago
        If a country you're at war with and whose leadership has stated that they intend to annihilate you is on the verge of developing nuclear weapons, the stakes are arguably WW2-tier.
        refenestrator 5y ago
        Conversely, American and Israeli politicians constantly talk about taking out Iran, making nukes a necessity for their self-defense. In both cases it's mostly posturing, but killing scientists and saying we had to, it's self defense is especially disgusting to me.
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  He's a nuclear scientist. Working on a nuclear bomb. For Iran. Wich is run by radical extremists. He's essentially a terrorist. Albeit one who goes around in a white lab coat as opposed to a machine gun and who has never harmed a fly but is more dangerous than the entire taliban put together.
  - coder583 5y ago
    and mossad/israel isn't a terorrist state? Are you serious?
  - coralreef 5y ago
    TIL Albert Einstein was a terrorist
  - nxmnxm99 5y ago
    US “war on terror” propaganda really never dies huh. Don’t fall in line with US global hegemony? Terrorist. Even if you’re an ancient culture who pose no rational threat to American people. Whatever cognitive dissonance allows you to think carpet bombing brown people in another country with drones is morally justified I guess
    - halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
      Who are you arguing with? Nobody in this line of discussion said anything about the United States not also being considered terrorists. There can be terrorists on both sides but it looks like the US is living rent free in your head.
      - nxmnxm99 5y ago
        Lmao what? I’m responding to a comment suggesting an offensive like this is justified because they’re “terrorists”. But sure, everyone’s a terrorist, great contribution.
        halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
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joelbluminator 5y ago
What are you talking about, according to the former Iranian president Iran has no homosexuals problem. See? Problem solved!

tomp 5y ago

If Iran could (i.e. had the technological capabilities to) meaningfully retaliate against Israel (without suffering too much consequences), they very likely would.

bawolff 5y ago

Were you under the impression that groups like Mossad, CIA, etc were law abiding groups? Their entire mission is to do illegal shit to forward their countries' national interest.

kkoncevicius 5y ago
So if these are not "law abiding" groups, then by definition part of what they do is illegal. Which is the word I used in my comment. I don't understand these replies.
- bawolff 5y ago
  I'm a different person than the one who said nothing is illegal. I think nothing is illegal in international relations is a cop-out answer (and not technically true. I dont know about this particular act, but there are plenty of illegal things under int law). Technically yes - its unlikely to be resolved by a court. However i think most people agree that in general assainations are at least morally repugant (although im sure some people think its justified sometimes). Anyways, lots of countries (Iran included) fund these type of spy groups. They do bad shit. That is their function. I imagine their masters think the ends justify means. Regardless, complaining that spy agencies are unethical is like complaining the mafia is unethical. Its just something that basically goes without saying.
  - kkoncevicius 5y ago
    I agree with everything you wrote here, but we talk past each other. The article was disturbing and it left an impression on me. There aren't many articles bragging about assassinations; CIA doesn't do that and if it did there would be domestic opposition. Yet the tone of this article makes it clear that they are not worried about that. That's why I wrote the original comment. It's not about "complaining that spy agencies are unethical". Deep down I just don't like what it represents and I don't think any post-hoc rationalisation will change that.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

m-p-3 5y ago

A legal system only has influence within its borders though (other than extradition treaties). And since the drone can't be prosecuted and the operators are outside of the borders, what can you do but give them bad press?

true_religion 5y ago
A lot of times when people say illegal, they really want to say immoral but that word sounds too out of place in common language. Is it okay to assassinate scientists? How about tech CEOs and software engineers? To me, the most troubling thing is that Iran seems to do nothing in response.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  They aren't doing nothing, just nothing that can be publicized.

sgregnt 5y ago

In many countries authoruzed military operation on foreign territory against what is perceived as existential thread to its existence is legal. So it is legal by Israeli law, isn't this enough?