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Can You See the Republic of Ireland from England?
- frabbit 5y agoThere reverse is certainly claimed in Ireland, e.g. https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/i-was-surprised-by-how-clear-it-was-stunning-photo-of-snowy-wales-taken-from-dublin-39969920.html https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/i-was-sur...
- ojbyrne 5y agoThe end of the original article mentions that he is talking about England as opposed to Wales. Your article only mentions Wales.
- frabbit 5y agoGood point.
- secondcoming 5y agoSnowdonia is in Wales, not England.
- frabbit 5y agoAnd should really be called Eryri. But, point accepted.
- Veen 5y agoNot in English, it isn’t.
- toyg 5y agoBeijing or Peking...?
- skhr0680 5y agoBeijing = Northern Chinese pronunciation Peking = Southern Chinese pronunciation
- Koshkin 5y agoBut neither one is something we can pronounce correctly anyway, I suppose.
- toyg 5y agoWell then, Florence or Firenze?
- galuggus 5y agoBeijing and Peking are different romanizatiins of 北京 Beijing is Pinyin and Peking is Wade-giles Both are pronounced the same way
- thaumasiotes 5y agoWell, you're one for three. Beijing and Peking are different romanizations of 北京. It is not true that beijing is pinyin and peking is Wade-Giles, nor is it true that they are pronounced the same way. Wade-Giles would be pei-ching. (Pinyin is indeed beijing.)
- dr_dshiv 5y agoWow, that's mind-blowing. It does seem so romantic, to consider how people might have imagined a far away land.
- BrianHenryIE 5y agoWow, that's a great photo. I grew up in Wicklow town and we could see Wales occasionally. If my dad said "you can see Wales today" what he was really saying was "the weather's great today".
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- azalemeth 5y agoI'm not so sure about that. I haven't checked the distances, but the claim is that the author has seen a 610m peak from a 150m observation tower, and that it is 150 mi away. The line of sight radio/radar horizon across the surface of the earth is well known and easy to calculate (1) and for two sources at different heights you can just add them. I get this as being about 94 mi, less than the stated distance. (1): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_horizon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_horizon
- jameshart 5y agoNo, his claim is he can see it from Anglezark, and he gives the viewpoint altitude there as 298m.
- redis_mlc 5y agoHN, stay pedantic.
- someguydave 5y agoatmospheric refraction could greatly extend that distance. See http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/atmos/mirage.html#c2 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/atmos/mirage.html... "The crew of a Canadian ship in the Arctic reported the mirage of a sailing ship off in the distance, upside down. The image was so sharp that the crew could make out the ropes in the rigging and could see people moving about on the deck. Two months later, the ships actually met. When the captains compared their ships' logs, they found that at the time of the sighting the two ships had been 80 miles apart!" (Gallant) The suggested explanation for a visible mirage at such a great distance is the observation of light traveling a long distance when a layer of cooler and denser air is sandwiched between two layers of warmer air (a temperature inversion).
- agf 5y agoExcept the distances here are twice that, and the farther you get apart the more the curvature matters.
- 5y ago
- agf 5y agoUsing https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/line-of-sight-calculator https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/line-of-sight-ca... because it's the first result that came up. 298m height where he's viewing from = 61.6km line of sight 610m height of Knockbrack = 88.2km LOS Total of 149.8km theoretical visible distance. And in the article he mentions a real distance of 154 miles -- not kilometers. So doesn't sound like there is any chance it was actually Ireland?
- soneil 5y agoIt's not an unreasonable distance for a refraction mirage, however. My math reached the same number as yours, but it does assume the light goes in a straight line. Reminders me of this article; https://www.abc57.com/news/skyline-skepticism-the-lake-michigan-mirage https://www.abc57.com/news/skyline-skepticism-the-lake-michi...
- agf 5y agoThe 170km number given in another comment (and by the calculators) is meant to take into account "normal" light-bending; the distance here is 250km. While I'm not an expert, that seems like a lot of extra distance / angle to make up.
- someguydave 5y agoyou can use shortwave radios to communicate 10,000 miles using ionospheric refraction. It is reasonable to think there are similar refraction phenomena in the troposphere, probably associated with thermal inversions
- mdturnerphys 5y agoI wonder if the right weather conditions could result in enough atmospheric refraction to make the mountain visible.
- ink_13 5y agoYes, this is called "looming": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looming_and_similar_refraction_phenomena https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looming_and_similar_refraction...
- Y_Y 5y agoYou can even see it from Spain if you have a a good tower and the blood of Noah in your veins. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hercules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hercules
- twic 5y agoqwertyuiop_! Did you come across this because you looked up Anglezarke after reading one of the stories about barium sulphate paint and then clicking around on Wikipedia?
- tazjin 5y agoThis page just serves me a 403 status.
- mikalauskas 5y agoSeems like they ban your country IP. Same for me (Russia)
- tazjin 5y agoYeah, also in Russia. I could access it with a VPN to somewhere else.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoAtmospheric refraction is a thing. From where I live I have a 45 mile view to a city. And a telescope. The view varies a lot, and not just because of haze. When the seeing is clear and the light is good it's just about possible to make out tall buildings. Some days they're clearly visible above the horizon. Other days they seem partially obscured. Every once in a while they seem to float above the horizon rather than on it. Clearly there's some refraction happening. And if there was anything behind the city - there isn't, for about a hundred miles or so - I might be able to see that too. There have been a few times where I've wondered if I can, but at that distance it's impossible to be sure.
- zamadatix 5y agoSometimes you can even see Milwaukee standing flat at the shores of Muskegon, an ~80 mile distance much like seeing the Isle of Man in the article but without using the height advantages at each side. https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2012/05/the_lights_of_milwaukee_seen_t.html https://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/2012/05/the_lights_of_mi...
- ggm 5y agoSky glow at night? Could try a laser to illuminate clouds and look for monochromatic light, or time on-off to ntp synchronised clocks.
- sydthrowaway 5y agoCan you see China from Taiwan?
- laumars 5y agoLoving the inclusion of a image from an Ordinance Survey (OS) map. For those who haven’t heard of them, maybe the younger members on here or anyone from outside the U.K., OS maps were the U.K. standard before GPS and Google Maps et al. We were even taught how to read them as kids at school and youth centres (eg scouts). In the days before ubiquitous GPS, it was considered an important life skill to read maps, understand grid references and all the various different markings on an OS map. To this day I still find OS maps to be the best around for clarity and information density. Though I won’t deny I also have a little nostalgia for their stylings too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey
- JNRowe 5y agoRose-tinted nostalgia surely? OS map styling is beautiful, but folding maps is the work of devils. You must remember trying to pin sections down so you could see across the paper splits caused by the pure evilness that is folding. It is possible my rage might also be caused by growing up on the point of a four-way boundary in Explorer and Landranger format. More seriously though, do they no longer teach at least basic navigation skills in school? It still feels, to me, like it is an essential life skill. If only for being able to assess the validity of your phone's answers in the most general case.
- etothepii 5y agoAre you from Stalybridge?
- onionisafruit 5y agoThe first day of class in Texas History in my school was devoted to learning how to fold a map (hello fellow Mr Buttrey students). It was a good time investment.
- ghaff 5y agoOS has a really nice app I’ve used for long distance walking trips. I still carry hard copy maps because I’m like that but I mostly don’t use them except to get a broader view.
- chx 5y agoRelated: Where is the longest visible line of sight on Earth from point A to point B? https://travel.stackexchange.com/q/98897/4188 https://travel.stackexchange.com/q/98897/4188
- axiom92 5y agoRelated: you can see Toronto skyline from Niagara falls https://www.blogto.com/city/2015/11/what_toronto_looks_like_from_niagara_falls/ https://www.blogto.com/city/2015/11/what_toronto_looks_like_...
- mrb 5y agoHere is an easy way to confirm if it's truly Ireland: this is a site that I absolutely LOVE: it has a 3D model of the earth's surface, can simulate the horizon visible from any point on the planet, and can automatically identify the farthest peaks visible: https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/makepanoramas.htm https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/makepanoramas.htm Here are the horizons it computed from the author's location, annotated by myself to align them with the pictures from the blog post: https://imgur.com/a/AlGiDi4 https://imgur.com/a/AlGiDi4 (open that on desktop—imgur serves low-resolution images to mobile browsers)...and unfortunately, what the author believes to be Ireland is actually Anglesey. What he believes to be Anglesey is actually Great Orme. What he believes to be Great Orme is actually Little Orme. Essentially all the peaks he identified are in reality shifted by 1 peak to the north. And the outline of the peaks in his pictures match the outlines of the simulated horizon so there is no doubt: he saw Anglesey (70 miles) and not Ireland (~150 miles). Here are the parameters I used to generate the first rendering (after filling them in, click "Panorama anzeigen"—direct link: https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=newstandard&data=lon:-2.53707$$$lat:53.63638$$$alt:auto$$$altcam:10$$$hialt:false$$$resolution:200$$$azimut:248$$$sweep:7$$$leftbound:244.5$$$rightbound:251.5$$$split:6$$$splitnr:2$$$tilt:-0.583333333333333$$$tiltsplit:false$$$elexagg:1.2$$$range:300$$$colorcoding:false$$$colorcodinglimit:113$$$title:Zugspitze$$$description:$$$email:$$$language:ge$$$screenwidth:2560$$$screenheight:1414 https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=ne... ): Breite (°): 53.63638 Länge (°): -2.53707 (these are the GPS coordinates that correspond to the layby where the author parked and made his binocular observations) Blickrichtung (°): 248 (azimuth, or direction of observation) Blickfeld (°): 7 (field of view) Zoomfaktor: 10 (zoom) And for the second rendering, just change these params (direct link: https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=newstandard&data=lon:-2.53707$$$lat:53.63638$$$alt:auto$$$altcam:10$$$hialt:false$$$resolution:600$$$azimut:251.5$$$sweep:3$$$leftbound:250$$$rightbound:253$$$split:2$$$splitnr:2$$$tilt:-0.569444444444445$$$tiltsplit:false$$$elexagg:1.2$$$range:300$$$colorcoding:false$$$colorcodinglimit:113$$$title:Zugspitze$$$description:$$$email:$$$language:ge$$$screenwidth:2560$$$screenheight:1414 https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=ne... ): Blickrichtung (°): 251.5 Blickfeld (°): 3 Zoomfaktor: 30 When I was a teenager I realized one morning I could see what could be Mont Blanc from my town, but very rarely only on specific mornings when the sun would rise right behind it. But I could never confirm because I saw it of my own eyes, without binoculars, and the right meteorological conditions only reoccured twice in my lifetime to see it. About 20 years later, when I found the udeuschle.de panorama site, I checked and was absolutely delighted when the site confirmed the shape of the peak that I remember so well matched exactly the generated horizon :-) It was at a distance of 130 miles... EDIT: in order to see Ireland from the blog post author's location, you have to raise the camera at an altitude of about 1400m above ground (set the altitude in the Kamerahöhe field): https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=newstandard&data=lon:-2.53707$$$lat:53.63638$$$alt:auto$$$altcam:1400$$$hialt:false$$$resolution:40$$$azimut:255$$$sweep:40$$$leftbound:235$$$rightbound:275$$$split:30$$$splitnr:2$$$tilt:auto$$$tiltsplit:false$$$elexagg:1.2$$$range:300$$$colorcoding:false$$$colorcodinglimit:129$$$title:test$$$description:$$$email:$$$language:ge$$$screenwidth:2560$$$screenheight:1414 https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=ne... (screenshot: https://imgur.com/a/AT0BAnm https://imgur.com/a/AT0BAnm ) The Irish peak visible is mount Kippure, next to the red mark "Max Dist" which is 159 miles away). It's a site made for desktop browsers. You can hover the mouse pointer over any peak label and it will show the distance to it. If you click it, Google Maps opens to the given peak, etc. A really neat way to explore the Earth. By the way in the above rendering at altitude 1400m you can still recognize Little Orme and Great Orme (at about one third from the image from left). The high-altitude perspective gives an idea of how much farther Ireland is behind these peaks. EDIT 2: at only about 900m above ground, the author could see Slieve Donard 143 miles away in Ireland (well, Northern Ireland, not the Republic of Ireland): https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=newstandard&data=lon:-2.53705$$$lat:53.63625$$$alt:auto$$$altcam:900$$$hialt:false$$$resolution:20$$$azimut:275$$$sweep:75$$$leftbound:237.5$$$rightbound:312.5$$$split:60$$$splitnr:2$$$tilt:auto$$$tiltsplit:false$$$elexagg:1.2$$$range:300$$$colorcoding:false$$$colorcodinglimit:231$$$title:Zugspitze$$$description:$$$email:$$$language:ge$$$screenwidth:393$$$screenheight:851 https://www.udeuschle.de/panoramas/panqueryfull.aspx?mode=ne...
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- aasasd 5y agoWell, I can't even see the website from my browser.
- temp 5y agoSlightly higher distance, but the landscape is more prone to delivering noteworthy views - Croatia and Italy. There's a thread going on on Skyscrapercity detailing views of up to around 250kms away ( https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/distant-views-photo-thread.1517293/page-6 https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/distant-views-photo-t... ) Croatian to Italy https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/SZQWX4.jpg https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/SZQWX4.jpg Looking at Croatia from Italy http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1065x799q90/921/0pw6Xl.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1065x799q90/921/0pw6Xl.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1065x799q90/922/NmKfQL.jpg http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1065x799q90/922/NmKfQL.jpg Highly dependent on the weather, obviouslly
- draven 5y agoReminds me of this: https://beyondrange.wordpress.com/ https://beyondrange.wordpress.com/ Pictures with really long lines of sight, the current record is 443km.
- donalhunt 5y agoNitpick: The name of the country is "Ireland". :)
- Asraelite 5y agoOnly colloquially. The official name includes "The Republic of". I think it's important to make that distinction here because "Ireland" can also sometimes refer to the whole island.
- donalhunt 5y agoIncorrect. From article 4 of the Constitution: "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
- jobigoud 5y agoI'm not from Ireland but apparently in 1948 they declared that the name of the state should officially be "Republic of Ireland" and did not amend the constitution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1948/act/22/section/2/enacted/en/html#zza22y1948s2 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1948/act/22/section/2/ena...
- Macha 5y agoNo, they declared "Republic of Ireland" to be an official _description_, not the official name. The name is specified near the beginning of the constitution as Éire, or in the English language, Ireland [1], in article 4, and would require an amendment to change. And while we do them way more often than the US does, we haven't done one for this topic. 1: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d5bd8c-constitution-of-ireland/ https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d5bd8c-constitution-of-ire...
- sllabres 5y agoThats about United Kingdom, but Ireland is mentioned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- WeeBinnian 5y agoI climbed Wee Binnian, in Northern Ireland's Mourne mountain range, a week ago today. Elevation of 745m. The Isle of Man was clearly visible even with the poor conditions. I couldn't see Wales or Scotland, let alone England though. Peakvisor useful for figuring out what might be visible, this is the view I had: https://peakvisor.com/panorama.html?lat=54.13982150126688&lng=-5.9702546401368295&alt=1463&yaw=79.20&pitch=2.33&hfov=60.00 https://peakvisor.com/panorama.html?lat=54.13982150126688&ln...
- GekkePrutser 5y agoSounds like a good test to put up a big laser on top of that peak some time and see if it can be viewed :D
- samoit 5y agomiles? seriously? what are we in? the stone age? Use the metric system. I automatically discard anything in the imperial system...
- Maursault 5y agoAges aren't metric! Neither are epochs, periods, eras nor eons.
- ctrlp 5y agoThis is a lovely bit of sleuthing. They should put a plaque at the spot.
- theaeolist 5y agoNot impossible. The longest sightline on Earth is 400km or so https://calgaryvisioncentre.com/news/2017/6/23/tdgft1bsbdlm8496ov7tn73kr0ci1q https://calgaryvisioncentre.com/news/2017/6/23/tdgft1bsbdlm8...