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Well, you're clearly an advocate for labor so I'm not going to here try to convince / sway you to some different viewpoint. I'm just going to correct your "fac

Well, you're clearly an advocate for labor so I'm not going to here try to convince / sway you to some different viewpoint. I'm just going to correct your "facts" for other people reading the discussion. "as it’s [$15/hr] proven it’s sustainable at scale" That's a total guess / assertion in favor of your position, isn't it? The new wage being offered isn't proven "sustainable" -- it's merely what some employers have had to offer in the face of a pandemic + widespread increased unemployment benefits. And we're seeing record inflation (with some part attributable to this, some due to other important factors of course). So you're hardly justified in saying it's proven sustainable long term. You just want it to be so because it benefits you. And secondly, and more importantly, your tactics are no better than some corporatists who seek to exploit laws to their advantage whenever they can, just for their side, because they can. "... which makes it easier to lock it in with statue." If it were so proven to be good and sustainable, why is a statute required? Wouldn't that sustain itself? Now that you see a moment where $15 has been tried out of necessity due to the temporary (hopefully) situation, you want to "lock it in" with laws and regulation, and distort how the market for labor works by putting in a floor. I find it equally bad for someone to try to argue for and do this, regardless of whose side it is -- corporations trying to skirt environmental regulations, other public obligations, or labor trying to say that they deserve x/y/z because they got it for a moment. Don't act as if you're trying to find a solution good for the entire economy, producers, consumers, workers, people. You're an advocate for labor to get more benefits. And using incomplete arguments that favor your position. And by the way, I don't engage in the practice of downvoting people who I merely disagree with.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
I think we have fundamentally different mental models; we disagree and neither is going to budge, at that’s okay. What you call “advocating for labor”, I call “paying people enough to live with dignity, even if distorting the labor market is necessary.” I advocate for labor because labor are fellow humans, and they matter the most imho. Whether capitalists get wealthy is not my concern. Regarding tactics, I take no issue with your statement. I think these issues are imperatives, even if cribbing off the playbook of less decent folks is a requirement. Regarding these policies benefiting me, I am financially independent. These policies would only cause me to pay more for goods and services (and possibly higher capital gains taxes), which I’m happy to do. If someone does not advocate for the disadvantaged, who will? Finally, I did not downvote any of your comments. HN is not showing downvote arrows to me for any comments in the thread, I assume because a flame war or similar heuristic has been triggered.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

I think we have fundamentally different mental models; we disagree and neither is going to budge, at that’s okay. What you call “advocating for labor”, I call “paying people enough to live with dignity, even if distorting the labor market is necessary.” I advocate for labor because labor are fellow humans, and they matter the most imho. Whether capitalists get wealthy is not my concern. Regarding tactics, I take no issue with your statement. I think these issues are imperatives, even if cribbing off the playbook of less decent folks is a requirement. Regarding these policies benefiting me, I am financially independent. These policies would only cause me to pay more for goods and services (and possibly higher capital gains taxes), which I’m happy to do. If someone does not advocate for the disadvantaged, who will? Finally, I did not downvote any of your comments. HN is not showing downvote arrows to me for any comments in the thread, I assume because a flame war or similar heuristic has been triggered.