5 ms·

Pretty cool but why does it have to be limited to AirTag or any specific devices? It would be easy to expand it to keep track of any nearby Bluetooth device and

Pretty cool but why does it have to be limited to AirTag or any specific devices? It would be easy to expand it to keep track of any nearby Bluetooth device and a corresponding whitelist. (Or do AirTag devices rotate Bluetooth MACs?) Airtags are just one implementation of a Bluetooth transmitter and a long life battery but anyone could probably build a similar device dedicated to tracking with off the shelf parts.

tinus_hn 5y ago
AirTags, like all Apple devices, use randomized Bluetooth addresses, otherwise they allow scanners to follow their users location over time.
- ollien 5y ago
  I don't think that's an Apple thing, but rather a BLE thing, isn't it (though technically opt-in)? https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/bluetooth-technology-protecting-your-privacy/ https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/bluetooth-technology-protecti...
  - SwaraLink 5y ago
    Private resolvable addresses are a BLE thing, but very few devices (aside from Apple products and Android phones) actually use them. It’s a shame, really, because most embedded BLE stacks support the feature. My company is working on a platform to make BLE product development much easier than it is today, and also to improve the quality of BLE products. We plan to make privacy a standard feature.
jeroenhd 5y ago
Airtags are the only devices (that I know of) that can leverage a worldwide network of iPhones to transmit their location rather than a power intensive LTE or GSM link. They also don't require any external antennae for location determination like those GPS trackers stalkers use. Those features make make AirTags more practical for any use, good or bad. They do rotate Bluetooth MAC addresses so only you and Apple can follow where the tag has been, supposedly. Furthermore, if your target has an iPhone, you can partially leverage their phone against them. Of course Apple saw this coming and added a warning. If you're on Android you'll have to rely on apps like these (or the theoretical app Apple promised at some point) to prevent AirStalking Tile has offered a similar mechanism for years but the lack of a worldwide network of automatic data collection points makes their network a lot less useful for good or bad people.
- katbyte 5y ago
  Tile will now leverage Amazon sidewalk to have a similar affect - which is all alexa and ring doorbells I think?
  - wasmitnetzen 5y ago
    Amazon Sidewalk isn't really a worldwide thing. Amazon has a localized website in only 20 countries, my guess is that in most other countries there aren't many Alexa and Ring devices.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      Same difference. The majority of people reading this are regularly within a half mile of a Sidewalk device (well, the ones that work on 900MHz) and might be wary of a Tile being used to track them as well.
- politelemon 5y ago
  It irks me that the onus of not being tracked is on the "target" themselves. Further, there's no protection if you have no smartphone but are in a dense population area surrounded by devices that are part of this surveillance network. There is no aspect of this that is privacy friendly except for the hand waving.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    There’s protection even if you’re standing there naked (except for the AirTag, of course, that has been secretly duct-taped to your buttocks): if the paired phone isn’t around, the AirTag makes noise. I can confirm this because my spouse is currently out of town, and I’ve grabbed her RV keys a couple of times to put stuff in the RV. And every time I pick the keys up, the AirTag goes off. It eventually shuts up just shy of my threshold of looking for a way to turn it off. (Or I could just make sure to grab my keys instead of hers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
    - 5y ago
spookthesunset 5y ago
> Airtags are just one implementation of a Bluetooth transmitter and a long life battery but anyone could probably build a similar device dedicated to tracking with off the shelf parts. There is nothing Dropbox does that can’t be done with rsync.
- manquer 5y ago
  Nothing the Dropbox client does that rsync can't do. Running even a NAS storage with remote backups and decent security is not trivial job. While UX/client features is a factor for buying into Dropbox, the storage and backup costs are the primary cost driver.

tinus_hn 5y ago

AirTags, like all Apple devices, use randomized Bluetooth addresses, otherwise they allow scanners to follow their users location over time.

ollien 5y ago
I don't think that's an Apple thing, but rather a BLE thing, isn't it (though technically opt-in)? https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/bluetooth-technology-protecting-your-privacy/ https://www.bluetooth.com/blog/bluetooth-technology-protecti...
- SwaraLink 5y ago
  Private resolvable addresses are a BLE thing, but very few devices (aside from Apple products and Android phones) actually use them. It’s a shame, really, because most embedded BLE stacks support the feature. My company is working on a platform to make BLE product development much easier than it is today, and also to improve the quality of BLE products. We plan to make privacy a standard feature.

jeroenhd 5y ago

Airtags are the only devices (that I know of) that can leverage a worldwide network of iPhones to transmit their location rather than a power intensive LTE or GSM link. They also don't require any external antennae for location determination like those GPS trackers stalkers use. Those features make make AirTags more practical for any use, good or bad. They do rotate Bluetooth MAC addresses so only you and Apple can follow where the tag has been, supposedly. Furthermore, if your target has an iPhone, you can partially leverage their phone against them. Of course Apple saw this coming and added a warning. If you're on Android you'll have to rely on apps like these (or the theoretical app Apple promised at some point) to prevent AirStalking Tile has offered a similar mechanism for years but the lack of a worldwide network of automatic data collection points makes their network a lot less useful for good or bad people.

katbyte 5y ago
Tile will now leverage Amazon sidewalk to have a similar affect - which is all alexa and ring doorbells I think?
- wasmitnetzen 5y ago
  Amazon Sidewalk isn't really a worldwide thing. Amazon has a localized website in only 20 countries, my guess is that in most other countries there aren't many Alexa and Ring devices.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Same difference. The majority of people reading this are regularly within a half mile of a Sidewalk device (well, the ones that work on 900MHz) and might be wary of a Tile being used to track them as well.
politelemon 5y ago
It irks me that the onus of not being tracked is on the "target" themselves. Further, there's no protection if you have no smartphone but are in a dense population area surrounded by devices that are part of this surveillance network. There is no aspect of this that is privacy friendly except for the hand waving.
- mikestew 5y ago
  There’s protection even if you’re standing there naked (except for the AirTag, of course, that has been secretly duct-taped to your buttocks): if the paired phone isn’t around, the AirTag makes noise. I can confirm this because my spouse is currently out of town, and I’ve grabbed her RV keys a couple of times to put stuff in the RV. And every time I pick the keys up, the AirTag goes off. It eventually shuts up just shy of my threshold of looking for a way to turn it off. (Or I could just make sure to grab my keys instead of hers. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )
  - 5y ago

spookthesunset 5y ago

> Airtags are just one implementation of a Bluetooth transmitter and a long life battery but anyone could probably build a similar device dedicated to tracking with off the shelf parts. There is nothing Dropbox does that can’t be done with rsync.

manquer 5y ago
Nothing the Dropbox client does that rsync can't do. Running even a NAS storage with remote backups and decent security is not trivial job. While UX/client features is a factor for buying into Dropbox, the storage and backup costs are the primary cost driver.