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Go’s New Code of Conduct Arrives with a High Profile Ban

43 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

cmlp100 5y ago
Nice hit piece with a carefully selected set of quotes. I wonder when the first social justice target will sue for defamation in a real court.
baybal2 5y ago
Very ironic, did Peter really author most of that CoC under which he got banned?
- gopiandcode 5y ago
  Indeed, what perfect poetic irony - Peter was certainly hoisted by his own petard. You'd think that he'd be aware of the CoC looming over him in conversations given his familiarity with it but I guess he was too short-sighted.
phnofive 5y ago
As far as CoCs provide for banning/muting obnoxious jerks (which is always going to be a subjective call), I'm for it, but surely there needs to be an escalating set of disciplinary steps - hard to see anything in here supporting more than a thirty day suspension. On the other hand, an author of the CoC should hold themself to a higher standard than "I wrote it, so everyone who disagrees is wrong".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
colpabar 5y ago
I don't know who any of these people are, but if that guy acts like that often, I'm glad he's been banned. I _hate_ when people dismiss questions as simply invalid without any explanation as to why it's invalid. How does that help anything? What are you even doing on a golang slack if you're just going to "troll" people for asking questions about golang?
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Yup, the inquiring user was pointing out a very confusing situation in the Go stdlib wrt. the handling of time, and also doing so in a very kind and reasonable way. Even if the documentation was technically accurate, the very fact that this kind of confusion can arise wrt. such a technical topic is a serious defect. The guy's reply is seriously unprofessional, and it's good that the golang folks are very clearly distancing themselves and disclaiming any endorsement of this kind of behavior.
sdevonoes 5y ago
Perhaps it's just because I'm not American, but I do find both positions (Peter's and Tim's, the author of the Report) a bit childish. I do think it's like "Hey teacher, Joe is bothering me!", and I have watched enough American movies to know that the American answer is "You both go to the Director's office now! Parents come later and blah blah, one of the kids is expelled and the other kid is now target of bullying by other bastard kids". Well, at least in great part of Europe and Asia the answer usually is "You two little bastards stop now!" and the whole class just turns to the two little kids waiting for them to stop the scene. The two kids realised the shame and stop. But perhaps I'm wrong and the report written by Tim is the way to go.
- Jare 5y ago
  > at least in great part of Europe and Asia [...] The two kids realised the shame and stop. Unfortunately, over the internet, kids and adults from all around the world usually refuse to stop trolling and harassing; they will even brag about their disruptive behaviour, if they think they can get away with it. This is why CoCs and bans have proliferated, and rightfully so.
- sdevonoes 5y ago
  So, based on the negatives I got I say: if I offended you, sorry; that wasn't my intention. As someone said once to me: "You have a thick skin, Sven!".
  - sdwr 5y ago
    I agree with you, the whole thing feels childish. I also get the sense that the original question-asker was ego-tripping a bit.
- armchairhacker 5y ago
  Real life isn't like American movies and the conversation is between adults. Most adults are reasonable enough not to pick on others even when they've been bullied, and the ones that do, the Go team doesn't want them.
johnwheeler 5y ago
Here’s the convo that got him banned. https://imgur.com/a/yPnWGXp?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=platform https://imgur.com/a/yPnWGXp?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_mediu... Other guy was just trying to understand how something works and troll activates enourmous passive aggressive defense mechanism because he doesn’t like being disagreed with
- sdevonoes 5y ago
  Someone should ban Linus Torvalds then. C'mon we are adults: we resolve things by talking, not by calling the @admins. And based on the imgur you posted, I think it all started with Tim's message at 11:00 am (just after Peter's message at 10:58 am): Peter got "clicked" by Tim.
  - johnwheeler 5y ago
    At least Torvalds doesn’t waste people’s’ time and just tells them to fuck off. That’s not good, but better than the shitty childish behavior in that slack. And while I think no one should be mean to anyone in general, chances are if you’re incessantly arguing with Torvalds about something Linux, youre wrong
  - phnofive 5y ago
    I don't think he'd sign on to a CoC in the first place.
  - ctvo 5y ago
    There was no talking or discussion. It was one person being mean spirited and childish for their own amusement at the expense of others. At some point in this thread you defend it as some sort of American cultural thing -- it's not. It's universal to be respectful to others. You're not at a bar, you're not with your friends. Don't Be a Dick. A lot of us grew up in IRC, and this behavior existed then, but hey, you're not anonymous anymore. The world / internet has moved on. Follow along (or face the consequences. I wouldn't work with Peter if you doubled my salary. I would actively avoid Peter in any technical setting). What seemed to trigger Peter is someone who knows something much much more deeply than he does. He tried to initially engage, and quickly found himself out of his depth, and reverted to being childish. This is why you wouldn't want to work with Peter. That level of insecurity is taxing on a team.
meinthrowaway 5y ago
I worked at the same company as the banned individual (Peter) some years ago. We were even on the same team for a time. Smart guy, but his caustic snark and condescension frankly overshadowed the technical and organizational impact of his work. I got a distinct sense of an unhealthy degree of hipster vanity for a lack of a better way of framing it. I have no axe to grind, but I'd have thought twice about hiring him for a team I was running (no place for toxicity in the workplace). To this specific incident here, I'm a bit taken aback by the level of immaturity documented in the writeup, as even this seems beneath what I observed from him in the workplace. Nevertheless, his poor attitude makes the episode seem plausible. A dose of humility would benefit him. And believe me, I don't like writing any of the above.
- anckl 5y ago
  LOL, a mob gathering over an insignificant issue. > And believe me, I don't like writing any of the above. Yeah, right.
- movedx 5y ago
  > I'm a bit taken aback by the level of immaturity documented in the writeup, as even this seems beneath what I observed from him in the workplace. On the Internet there are no social cues or biological processes between you and the recipient of your words. That's why in this case he's coming across as more immature than what you're experienced in the work place.
hamburgerwah 5y ago
Not that go was ever really a thing but now for sure it wont ever be. Bunch of infants.
tobbob 5y ago
The CoC says not to make people feel unwelcome, yet they still have a banner on the golang homepage supporting what I consider to be a racist terrorist oranisation. I feel pretty unwelcome. I thought it was a programming language, not marxist political movement. Imagine going on the kkk website (if there is one) and it's got a banner about how Rust is memory safe and you should get involved. lol
sadfev 5y ago
Sheesh it’s one thing to be opinionated and taking a swipe or two to express frustration. The way Peter behaved and continue to behave on Twitter is classic case of cyberbulling!!

43 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

Nice hit piece with a carefully selected set of quotes. I wonder when the first social justice target will sue for defamation in a real court.

baybal2 5y ago

Very ironic, did Peter really author most of that CoC under which he got banned?

gopiandcode 5y ago
Indeed, what perfect poetic irony - Peter was certainly hoisted by his own petard. You'd think that he'd be aware of the CoC looming over him in conversations given his familiarity with it but I guess he was too short-sighted.

phnofive 5y ago

As far as CoCs provide for banning/muting obnoxious jerks (which is always going to be a subjective call), I'm for it, but surely there needs to be an escalating set of disciplinary steps - hard to see anything in here supporting more than a thirty day suspension. On the other hand, an author of the CoC should hold themself to a higher standard than "I wrote it, so everyone who disagrees is wrong".

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

colpabar 5y ago

I don't know who any of these people are, but if that guy acts like that often, I'm glad he's been banned. I _hate_ when people dismiss questions as simply invalid without any explanation as to why it's invalid. How does that help anything? What are you even doing on a golang slack if you're just going to "troll" people for asking questions about golang?

zozbot234 5y ago
Yup, the inquiring user was pointing out a very confusing situation in the Go stdlib wrt. the handling of time, and also doing so in a very kind and reasonable way. Even if the documentation was technically accurate, the very fact that this kind of confusion can arise wrt. such a technical topic is a serious defect. The guy's reply is seriously unprofessional, and it's good that the golang folks are very clearly distancing themselves and disclaiming any endorsement of this kind of behavior.

sdevonoes 5y ago

Perhaps it's just because I'm not American, but I do find both positions (Peter's and Tim's, the author of the Report) a bit childish. I do think it's like "Hey teacher, Joe is bothering me!", and I have watched enough American movies to know that the American answer is "You both go to the Director's office now! Parents come later and blah blah, one of the kids is expelled and the other kid is now target of bullying by other bastard kids". Well, at least in great part of Europe and Asia the answer usually is "You two little bastards stop now!" and the whole class just turns to the two little kids waiting for them to stop the scene. The two kids realised the shame and stop. But perhaps I'm wrong and the report written by Tim is the way to go.

Jare 5y ago
> at least in great part of Europe and Asia [...] The two kids realised the shame and stop. Unfortunately, over the internet, kids and adults from all around the world usually refuse to stop trolling and harassing; they will even brag about their disruptive behaviour, if they think they can get away with it. This is why CoCs and bans have proliferated, and rightfully so.
sdevonoes 5y ago
So, based on the negatives I got I say: if I offended you, sorry; that wasn't my intention. As someone said once to me: "You have a thick skin, Sven!".
- sdwr 5y ago
  I agree with you, the whole thing feels childish. I also get the sense that the original question-asker was ego-tripping a bit.
armchairhacker 5y ago
Real life isn't like American movies and the conversation is between adults. Most adults are reasonable enough not to pick on others even when they've been bullied, and the ones that do, the Go team doesn't want them.

johnwheeler 5y ago

Here’s the convo that got him banned. https://imgur.com/a/yPnWGXp?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_medium=website&utm_campaign=platform https://imgur.com/a/yPnWGXp?utm_source=thenewstack&utm_mediu... Other guy was just trying to understand how something works and troll activates enourmous passive aggressive defense mechanism because he doesn’t like being disagreed with

sdevonoes 5y ago
Someone should ban Linus Torvalds then. C'mon we are adults: we resolve things by talking, not by calling the @admins. And based on the imgur you posted, I think it all started with Tim's message at 11:00 am (just after Peter's message at 10:58 am): Peter got "clicked" by Tim.
- johnwheeler 5y ago
  At least Torvalds doesn’t waste people’s’ time and just tells them to fuck off. That’s not good, but better than the shitty childish behavior in that slack. And while I think no one should be mean to anyone in general, chances are if you’re incessantly arguing with Torvalds about something Linux, youre wrong
- phnofive 5y ago
  I don't think he'd sign on to a CoC in the first place.
- ctvo 5y ago
  There was no talking or discussion. It was one person being mean spirited and childish for their own amusement at the expense of others. At some point in this thread you defend it as some sort of American cultural thing -- it's not. It's universal to be respectful to others. You're not at a bar, you're not with your friends. Don't Be a Dick. A lot of us grew up in IRC, and this behavior existed then, but hey, you're not anonymous anymore. The world / internet has moved on. Follow along (or face the consequences. I wouldn't work with Peter if you doubled my salary. I would actively avoid Peter in any technical setting). What seemed to trigger Peter is someone who knows something much much more deeply than he does. He tried to initially engage, and quickly found himself out of his depth, and reverted to being childish. This is why you wouldn't want to work with Peter. That level of insecurity is taxing on a team.

meinthrowaway 5y ago

I worked at the same company as the banned individual (Peter) some years ago. We were even on the same team for a time. Smart guy, but his caustic snark and condescension frankly overshadowed the technical and organizational impact of his work. I got a distinct sense of an unhealthy degree of hipster vanity for a lack of a better way of framing it. I have no axe to grind, but I'd have thought twice about hiring him for a team I was running (no place for toxicity in the workplace). To this specific incident here, I'm a bit taken aback by the level of immaturity documented in the writeup, as even this seems beneath what I observed from him in the workplace. Nevertheless, his poor attitude makes the episode seem plausible. A dose of humility would benefit him. And believe me, I don't like writing any of the above.

anckl 5y ago
LOL, a mob gathering over an insignificant issue. > And believe me, I don't like writing any of the above. Yeah, right.
movedx 5y ago
> I'm a bit taken aback by the level of immaturity documented in the writeup, as even this seems beneath what I observed from him in the workplace. On the Internet there are no social cues or biological processes between you and the recipient of your words. That's why in this case he's coming across as more immature than what you're experienced in the work place.

hamburgerwah 5y ago

Not that go was ever really a thing but now for sure it wont ever be. Bunch of infants.

tobbob 5y ago

The CoC says not to make people feel unwelcome, yet they still have a banner on the golang homepage supporting what I consider to be a racist terrorist oranisation. I feel pretty unwelcome. I thought it was a programming language, not marxist political movement. Imagine going on the kkk website (if there is one) and it's got a banner about how Rust is memory safe and you should get involved. lol

sadfev 5y ago

Sheesh it’s one thing to be opinionated and taking a swipe or two to express frustration. The way Peter behaved and continue to behave on Twitter is classic case of cyberbulling!!