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“Mathematical construct” is synonymous with “appropriately accurate language”. “I'm just saying that if the actions our brain and body (and the rest of nature)

“Mathematical construct” is synonymous with “appropriately accurate language”. “I'm just saying that if the actions our brain and body (and the rest of nature) are 100% predictable per the laws of physics, chemistry, etc, then there's no room for them to be controlled by something else.”” True, but why do you think “what’s really happening” is reducible to any kind of precise theory? “ Given the current state of synaptic strengths in your brain, its actions in response to any input are proscribed. You may be able to report on the evolving neural activity up until the point that some specific action threshold is reached (and your muscles start twitching), but the outcome in reality was never in doubt despite alternatives having been "considered" beforehand.” Can you share the studies that show this? I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to convey here. Is it that some study shows certain actions can be predicted by brain activity before they are made?

HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
> Is it that some study shows certain actions can be predicted by brain activity before they are made? Sure, and also experiments where people report making conscious decisions for actions who's speed precludes a path through the cortex. What I meant by "... evolving neural activity .." was to explain how we feel as if we have a choice, and are making decisions, because before any action "decision" is made (motor control initiated) there will likely be a period beforehand where whatever triggered the action is being processed and the outcome is not yet clear. Eventually there'll be some sort of winner-takes-all collapse of the alternatives and one will dominate. In the prelude to final response, we have access to our "inner thoughts" and can see the indecision and process, and we attribute that to some theorized actor "my self". Anyways, I'm not here to convince you about this. As sure as I am about this, I do realize it's a "contrarian" view, and that the feeling of self-determination sure seems convincing, even if rationally a scientist may realize it is not true.
- GPerson 5y ago
  I’ve not shared my opinion on the existence of free will by the way. I tend to think it does not but I also believe that it is an unknowable question. I also don’t think brain activity studies like those prove that no kind of free will is possible.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
    It's the understood predictable nature of the stuff we're built out of - chemicals - that precludes free will. If animals were continually overriding the laws of chemistry in their brains, then it'd have been seen in some rat's brain in the lab by now!! What those brain/psychological studies do prove is that our subjective experience is misleading. Our experience and internal narrative of what we're doing, and why, are really just after-the-fact rationalizations of what our brain+body are doing.

HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago

> Is it that some study shows certain actions can be predicted by brain activity before they are made? Sure, and also experiments where people report making conscious decisions for actions who's speed precludes a path through the cortex. What I meant by "... evolving neural activity .." was to explain how we feel as if we have a choice, and are making decisions, because before any action "decision" is made (motor control initiated) there will likely be a period beforehand where whatever triggered the action is being processed and the outcome is not yet clear. Eventually there'll be some sort of winner-takes-all collapse of the alternatives and one will dominate. In the prelude to final response, we have access to our "inner thoughts" and can see the indecision and process, and we attribute that to some theorized actor "my self". Anyways, I'm not here to convince you about this. As sure as I am about this, I do realize it's a "contrarian" view, and that the feeling of self-determination sure seems convincing, even if rationally a scientist may realize it is not true.

GPerson 5y ago
I’ve not shared my opinion on the existence of free will by the way. I tend to think it does not but I also believe that it is an unknowable question. I also don’t think brain activity studies like those prove that no kind of free will is possible.
- HarHarVeryFunny 5y ago
  It's the understood predictable nature of the stuff we're built out of - chemicals - that precludes free will. If animals were continually overriding the laws of chemistry in their brains, then it'd have been seen in some rat's brain in the lab by now!! What those brain/psychological studies do prove is that our subjective experience is misleading. Our experience and internal narrative of what we're doing, and why, are really just after-the-fact rationalizations of what our brain+body are doing.