4 ms·

While we’re using anecdotes, corporate owned housing can have issues too. They discriminate against renters with low income, unstable jobs, mixed-race families,

by yunohn 5y ago

While we’re using anecdotes, corporate owned housing can have issues too. They discriminate against renters with low income, unstable jobs, mixed-race families, etc etc - examples from “first world” Netherlands, where companies like MVGM own majorities of rental housing.

harryh 5y ago
Indeed! As I acknowledge in the last sentence of my comment. Because of these things, I think the healthiest housing markets are those with a good mix of suppliers (both govt and private). Supplier competition comes with many benefits.
- yunohn 5y ago
  My point about MVGM and the rental corporations mentioned in the post, is that they’re massive and bordering on mono/duopolies. That reduces the “mix of suppliers” you’re talking about. Moreover, most corporations act similarly when driven by profit, so it’s a false choice.
klyrs 5y ago
> While we’re using anecdotes... Shallow dismissal. Singapore discriminates against LGBTQ couples as a matter of policy. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's an anecdote. https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Public_housing_for_LGBT_Singaporeans https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Publ...
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It's still an anecdote. Corporate housing discriminates against poor people and people of colour as a matter of incentive, which is no different in practice. In any case, it doesn't change anything, if Singapore is oppressing LGBT people they will do so government owned housing or not.
  - foldr 5y ago
    Sorry but it’s just not an anecdote. It’s government policy, as you can easily determine by googling. It’s not like we have to take one person’s word for it that this is happening.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      The argument is not about Singapore. You're making the argument that it's not a good idea to have government-run public housing (presumably in Berlin/US/UK) because one government somewhere they did something bad through that they could have done even with private housing. It's an anecdote for your argument. If the argument was "did Singapore discriminate against people through housing" it wouldn't be. If the argument is "should we have public housing [here]" then it's an anecdote. You'd have to show that this would happen in the place in question. If you want to make a general statement, you'd have to make that clear and make the case that in such countries landlords wouldn't discriminate against you for being LGBT (which they absolutely do).
      - foldr 5y ago
        I’m not making any argument about whether it’s a good idea to have government run public housing. I think you have me confused with another poster. Your definition of ‘anecdote’ seems way off to me. We’re talking about an objectively verifiable data point. Just because it doesn’t fully confirm some argument that someone’s making doesn’t make it an anecdote. Check the dictionary definition.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Anecdotes are objectively verifiable data points. The key is that they are a single data point and can't be used to make a general argument because of that. It's a single interesting story about an event. That is a valid definition of "anecdote".
        foldr 5y ago
- wyre 5y ago
  I think Singapore discriminating against LGBTQ is the bigger deal than Singapore owning the housing.
  - wearywanderer 5y ago
    It's all part of the same deal for people living in Singapore. They don't get to pick and choose which aspects of the government they want (democracy in Singapore is a farce.)
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      Sure, but that goes to show that "state ownership" simply means very different things in a democratic state vs a non-democratic state. Democratic state ownership is a kind of public ownership - the voters have some amount of control over the state, and through the state, over the owned resource. Non-democratic state ownership is a kind of private ownership - the dictator(s) have direct control of the resource, and the voters have no more rights to control state-owned property than corporate-owned property.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  It's completely legal for private landlords to discriminate against LGBT people in housing federally in the US, as well as many states, counties and cities. And it happens quite often. There's also the Fair Housing Act exemptions, where small private landlords with fewer than about 4 units, or landlords that share buildings with their tenants, can ignore the discrimination limits imposed by the FHA.

by yunohn 5y ago

harryh 5y ago

Indeed! As I acknowledge in the last sentence of my comment. Because of these things, I think the healthiest housing markets are those with a good mix of suppliers (both govt and private). Supplier competition comes with many benefits.

yunohn 5y ago
My point about MVGM and the rental corporations mentioned in the post, is that they’re massive and bordering on mono/duopolies. That reduces the “mix of suppliers” you’re talking about. Moreover, most corporations act similarly when driven by profit, so it’s a false choice.

klyrs 5y ago

> While we’re using anecdotes... Shallow dismissal. Singapore discriminates against LGBTQ couples as a matter of policy. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's an anecdote. https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Public_housing_for_LGBT_Singaporeans https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Publ...

sudosysgen 5y ago
It's still an anecdote. Corporate housing discriminates against poor people and people of colour as a matter of incentive, which is no different in practice. In any case, it doesn't change anything, if Singapore is oppressing LGBT people they will do so government owned housing or not.
- foldr 5y ago
  Sorry but it’s just not an anecdote. It’s government policy, as you can easily determine by googling. It’s not like we have to take one person’s word for it that this is happening.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    The argument is not about Singapore. You're making the argument that it's not a good idea to have government-run public housing (presumably in Berlin/US/UK) because one government somewhere they did something bad through that they could have done even with private housing. It's an anecdote for your argument. If the argument was "did Singapore discriminate against people through housing" it wouldn't be. If the argument is "should we have public housing [here]" then it's an anecdote. You'd have to show that this would happen in the place in question. If you want to make a general statement, you'd have to make that clear and make the case that in such countries landlords wouldn't discriminate against you for being LGBT (which they absolutely do).
    - foldr 5y ago
      I’m not making any argument about whether it’s a good idea to have government run public housing. I think you have me confused with another poster. Your definition of ‘anecdote’ seems way off to me. We’re talking about an objectively verifiable data point. Just because it doesn’t fully confirm some argument that someone’s making doesn’t make it an anecdote. Check the dictionary definition.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Anecdotes are objectively verifiable data points. The key is that they are a single data point and can't be used to make a general argument because of that. It's a single interesting story about an event. That is a valid definition of "anecdote".
        foldr 5y ago
wyre 5y ago
I think Singapore discriminating against LGBTQ is the bigger deal than Singapore owning the housing.
- wearywanderer 5y ago
  It's all part of the same deal for people living in Singapore. They don't get to pick and choose which aspects of the government they want (democracy in Singapore is a farce.)
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Sure, but that goes to show that "state ownership" simply means very different things in a democratic state vs a non-democratic state. Democratic state ownership is a kind of public ownership - the voters have some amount of control over the state, and through the state, over the owned resource. Non-democratic state ownership is a kind of private ownership - the dictator(s) have direct control of the resource, and the voters have no more rights to control state-owned property than corporate-owned property.
heavyset_go 5y ago
It's completely legal for private landlords to discriminate against LGBT people in housing federally in the US, as well as many states, counties and cities. And it happens quite often. There's also the Fair Housing Act exemptions, where small private landlords with fewer than about 4 units, or landlords that share buildings with their tenants, can ignore the discrimination limits imposed by the FHA.