5 ms·

this service always made me feel uncomfortable, even the origin of the name “mechanical turk”… an illusion of automation meant to fool others, but really just t

this service always made me feel uncomfortable, even the origin of the name “mechanical turk”… an illusion of automation meant to fool others, but really just the hidden labor of a foreigner

01acheru 5y ago
The name “mechanical turk” comes from a fake chess-playing machine that hid a person inside of it, whom actually operated said machine. So I think the name is quite appropriate for this service. Anyway, I don’t like that service either. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk
- klyrs 5y ago
  I think GP knows that. The name is uncomfortable and it's honest. Which... kinda says something about the people using it for scientific research.
  - asciident 5y ago
    What does it say about people using it for research?
  - 01acheru 5y ago
    Why would it be uncomfortable? Those hidden inside the (original) machine were not exploited by the machine owner edit: I see that wearywanderer explained what I mean as a sibling, that’s why I think GP didn’t get precisely what the MT was and how it was operated
    - webmaven 5y ago
      > Why would it be uncomfortable? Those hidden inside the (original) machine were not exploited by the machine owner Do you have a source for that assertion? As far as I can tell, several of the chess players known to have operated the Turk had substance abuse (chiefly alcoholism), health, and money problems (the words 'debt', 'penniless', and 'destitute' come up a few times). While not proof of abuse, it does suggest a strategy of recruiting the vulnerable.
      - 01acheru 5y ago
        In late 1700 and early 1800 Europe being a heavy drinker, having some kind of health issue and/or being penniless were the norm for most of the population. If performing a task because of those issues means being exploited then we must assume that almost everyone in Europe at those times were exploited in one way or another. I understand what you mean if we judge it from modern western standards, but I don’t agree if we judge it by the standards of that era. It’s all a matter of context IMHO.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
kongin 5y ago
When the Mechanical Turk was crated in Austria the country had been nearly conquered by the Ottomans less than 80 years previously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna The name was meant to inspire dread in those playing against it, much like how you know shit has gotten real when you have to fight robot Hitler in an American game.
legrande 5y ago
> an illusion of automation meant to fool others They even say it on the site: 'Artificial Artificial Intelligence'
wearywanderer 5y ago
> the hidden labor of a foreigner You're technically not wrong, but from your tone and wording I think you have a misconception about the machine, or are trying to induce such a misconception in others, to inspire others to take offense at the premise. There was never a Turkish person hidden inside the Mechanical Turk. The "foreigners" inside were a variety of chess masters from Germany, Austrian, French and the UK. Not the oppressed immigrants a modern reader might imagine when speaking of Turks and unspecified foreigners. And I suspect the chessmaster operators of the original Mechanical Turk were not remotely representative of the demographics of modern Amazon MT users. A Frenchman participating in a scheme to bamboozle some Austrian princes is not exactly something worth getting bent out of shape over. (Furthermore I think in at least some of the cases, the chessmasters were operating the machine in their home country and weren't foreigners at all.)
- arglebarglegar 5y ago
  the turk operator got zero credit for beating heaps of famous people while inside the mecahnical turk, it’s hidden foreigner labor either way… but amazon reversed the exploitation aspect this is true

this service always made me feel uncomfortable, even the origin of the name “mechanical turk”… an illusion of automation meant to fool others, but really just the hidden labor of a foreigner

01acheru 5y ago

The name “mechanical turk” comes from a fake chess-playing machine that hid a person inside of it, whom actually operated said machine. So I think the name is quite appropriate for this service. Anyway, I don’t like that service either. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk

klyrs 5y ago
I think GP knows that. The name is uncomfortable and it's honest. Which... kinda says something about the people using it for scientific research.
- asciident 5y ago
  What does it say about people using it for research?
- 01acheru 5y ago
  Why would it be uncomfortable? Those hidden inside the (original) machine were not exploited by the machine owner edit: I see that wearywanderer explained what I mean as a sibling, that’s why I think GP didn’t get precisely what the MT was and how it was operated
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > Why would it be uncomfortable? Those hidden inside the (original) machine were not exploited by the machine owner Do you have a source for that assertion? As far as I can tell, several of the chess players known to have operated the Turk had substance abuse (chiefly alcoholism), health, and money problems (the words 'debt', 'penniless', and 'destitute' come up a few times). While not proof of abuse, it does suggest a strategy of recruiting the vulnerable.
    - 01acheru 5y ago
      In late 1700 and early 1800 Europe being a heavy drinker, having some kind of health issue and/or being penniless were the norm for most of the population. If performing a task because of those issues means being exploited then we must assume that almost everyone in Europe at those times were exploited in one way or another. I understand what you mean if we judge it from modern western standards, but I don’t agree if we judge it by the standards of that era. It’s all a matter of context IMHO.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

kongin 5y ago

When the Mechanical Turk was crated in Austria the country had been nearly conquered by the Ottomans less than 80 years previously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna The name was meant to inspire dread in those playing against it, much like how you know shit has gotten real when you have to fight robot Hitler in an American game.

legrande 5y ago

> an illusion of automation meant to fool others They even say it on the site: 'Artificial Artificial Intelligence'

wearywanderer 5y ago

> the hidden labor of a foreigner You're technically not wrong, but from your tone and wording I think you have a misconception about the machine, or are trying to induce such a misconception in others, to inspire others to take offense at the premise. There was never a Turkish person hidden inside the Mechanical Turk. The "foreigners" inside were a variety of chess masters from Germany, Austrian, French and the UK. Not the oppressed immigrants a modern reader might imagine when speaking of Turks and unspecified foreigners. And I suspect the chessmaster operators of the original Mechanical Turk were not remotely representative of the demographics of modern Amazon MT users. A Frenchman participating in a scheme to bamboozle some Austrian princes is not exactly something worth getting bent out of shape over. (Furthermore I think in at least some of the cases, the chessmasters were operating the machine in their home country and weren't foreigners at all.)

arglebarglegar 5y ago
the turk operator got zero credit for beating heaps of famous people while inside the mecahnical turk, it’s hidden foreigner labor either way… but amazon reversed the exploitation aspect this is true