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Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna, Pfizer and J&J Vaccines

19 points by drocer88 5y ago

ekianjo 5y ago
So... J&J's vaccine is much less effective, but still "fine to provide"? It does not make any sense. If there's a 20% gap between two different vaccines you should not use the less effective one unless you have a very good rationale to do so.
- jacobmischka 5y ago
  In an ideal world where everyone got vaccinated it wouldn't really matter, since universal vaccination at any of these rates would have stopped the virus from reproducing. Especially at the beginning, when vaccines were scarce and it was hoped that everyone would get one it made sense to get whichever one you could get your hands on. Now that it's clear that ~40% of the population never will and they can't even pay people to get them, yes it makes no sense to get the worse one.
- ranguna 5y ago
  The case for J&J is very simple, it only requires one dose, you'll probably get a fever if you catch covid, but the chances of needing hospitalisation are brutally low and the chances of dying are even lower. So yeah, it has a pretty bad efficacy in preventing minor symptoms, but a pretty good efficacy preventing hospitalisation and death. I wish I had sources for all this, but it's just stuff that I've read around the Web when I toke my shot, so take it with a grain of salt.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Less side effects in young males?
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  But what does that mean for the people who already got it? They did the religiously accepted dance so they can no longer be blamed for problems.
  - pimeys 5y ago
    My partner got a J&J and a few months later a BioNTech booster. It gives quite a good protection and the whole summer we were able to get to bars, movies and museums without waiting for him to get a second jab.
belter 5y ago
Are studies like this that make me loose respect for a part of the Medical community the CDC included. In the last few hours of course this study is already being quoted in the media. The conclusions: Vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 hospitalization during March 11–August 15, 2021, was higher for the Moderna vaccine (93%) than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (88%) and the Janssen vaccine (71%). The critical point here folks, is "during March 11–August 15" Their conclusion... =========================================================== "What are the implications for public health practice? "Although these real-world data suggest some variation in levels of protection by vaccine, all FDA-approved or authorized COVID-19 vaccines provide substantial protection against COVID-19 hospitalization." =========================================================== Part they forgot to mention...."during March 11–August 15"... Also...They are measuring Vaccine Effectiveness not Efficacy "How do vaccine effectiveness studies differ from vaccine efficacy studies?" https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectivenessqa.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectivenessqa.htm And one of the critical differences is: "Vaccine effectiveness studies include people with underlying medical conditions who have been administered vaccines by different health care providers. Vaccine effectiveness studies can be used to determine if higher risk groups of people (often excluded from clinical trials/RCTs) respond differently to the vaccine." From the study they got 5484 and excluded 1786 patients for having immunocompromising conditions. Fine but that is about 32% of their universe... Please remind me when and where these 32% of a certain population has been allowed to be excluded from current vaccine mandates?
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  If immunocompromized people were in the study obviously the results would be even worse, but you’d be happy because you could dismiss it because it includes all these immunocompromized people tainting the results. You just don’t like the results because they don’t fit your ‘if everyone was vaccinated the pandemic would magically disappear’ religion.
- ramblerman 5y ago
  I don't really understand any of your objections. > Also...They are measuring Vaccine Effectiveness not Efficacy Effectiveness is what we care about, i.e. real world results. Unless you have some evidence to believe that the distribution chains between the vaccine providers were so imbalanced that one got tainted more than the rest. And if that's the case it would still make the result useful to decide which vaccine you want. > during March 11–August 15 (mentioned twice) Any study is going to be bound within a period of time. What makes you think this period was so special it would not be effective to present a comparison between the vaccines?

19 points by drocer88 5y ago

So... J&J's vaccine is much less effective, but still "fine to provide"? It does not make any sense. If there's a 20% gap between two different vaccines you should not use the less effective one unless you have a very good rationale to do so.

jacobmischka 5y ago
In an ideal world where everyone got vaccinated it wouldn't really matter, since universal vaccination at any of these rates would have stopped the virus from reproducing. Especially at the beginning, when vaccines were scarce and it was hoped that everyone would get one it made sense to get whichever one you could get your hands on. Now that it's clear that ~40% of the population never will and they can't even pay people to get them, yes it makes no sense to get the worse one.
ranguna 5y ago
The case for J&J is very simple, it only requires one dose, you'll probably get a fever if you catch covid, but the chances of needing hospitalisation are brutally low and the chances of dying are even lower. So yeah, it has a pretty bad efficacy in preventing minor symptoms, but a pretty good efficacy preventing hospitalisation and death. I wish I had sources for all this, but it's just stuff that I've read around the Web when I toke my shot, so take it with a grain of salt.
selimthegrim 5y ago
Less side effects in young males?
tinus_hn 5y ago
But what does that mean for the people who already got it? They did the religiously accepted dance so they can no longer be blamed for problems.
- pimeys 5y ago
  My partner got a J&J and a few months later a BioNTech booster. It gives quite a good protection and the whole summer we were able to get to bars, movies and museums without waiting for him to get a second jab.

belter 5y ago

Are studies like this that make me loose respect for a part of the Medical community the CDC included. In the last few hours of course this study is already being quoted in the media. The conclusions: Vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 hospitalization during March 11–August 15, 2021, was higher for the Moderna vaccine (93%) than the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine (88%) and the Janssen vaccine (71%). The critical point here folks, is "during March 11–August 15" Their conclusion... =========================================================== "What are the implications for public health practice? "Although these real-world data suggest some variation in levels of protection by vaccine, all FDA-approved or authorized COVID-19 vaccines provide substantial protection against COVID-19 hospitalization." =========================================================== Part they forgot to mention...."during March 11–August 15"... Also...They are measuring Vaccine Effectiveness not Efficacy "How do vaccine effectiveness studies differ from vaccine efficacy studies?" https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectivenessqa.htm https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectivenessqa.htm And one of the critical differences is: "Vaccine effectiveness studies include people with underlying medical conditions who have been administered vaccines by different health care providers. Vaccine effectiveness studies can be used to determine if higher risk groups of people (often excluded from clinical trials/RCTs) respond differently to the vaccine." From the study they got 5484 and excluded 1786 patients for having immunocompromising conditions. Fine but that is about 32% of their universe... Please remind me when and where these 32% of a certain population has been allowed to be excluded from current vaccine mandates?

tinus_hn 5y ago
If immunocompromized people were in the study obviously the results would be even worse, but you’d be happy because you could dismiss it because it includes all these immunocompromized people tainting the results. You just don’t like the results because they don’t fit your ‘if everyone was vaccinated the pandemic would magically disappear’ religion.
ramblerman 5y ago
I don't really understand any of your objections. > Also...They are measuring Vaccine Effectiveness not Efficacy Effectiveness is what we care about, i.e. real world results. Unless you have some evidence to believe that the distribution chains between the vaccine providers were so imbalanced that one got tainted more than the rest. And if that's the case it would still make the result useful to decide which vaccine you want. > during March 11–August 15 (mentioned twice) Any study is going to be bound within a period of time. What makes you think this period was so special it would not be effective to present a comparison between the vaccines?