7 ms·

I’ve also been a customer at establishments with deaf employees and none of them ever had a sign language interpreter. Providing an iPad to type messages on is

by imgabe 5y ago

I’ve also been a customer at establishments with deaf employees and none of them ever had a sign language interpreter. Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation. Customers who don’t like it can work with another employee or go elsewhere. But hiring a second entire employee who basically shadows you and does your job for you seems like a bit much.

ekianjo 5y ago
> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.
- imgabe 5y ago
  We don’t always get what we want when we go out into the public and deal with other people. Sometimes I want to zip in and out of the grocery store but there’s an old lady in front of me who wants to argue about an expired coupon and it takes longer than I’d like. Such is life.
  - stickfigure 5y ago
    I stop shopping in places where the customer service is slow. Such is life.
    - kyleee 5y ago
      Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience with a deaf person and it took 3-5 minutes longer than it would have with a hearing person?
      - browningstreet 5y ago
        I’d be more inclined to get a kick out of the situation.
      - skzv 5y ago
        I'd be really happy to see we are accommodating people with disabilities. A reminder to me that if I lost my eyesight, hearing, or mobility, I won't be left behind.
      - optimiz3 5y ago
        Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience and it took 3-5 minutes longer? Fixed it, and maybe. A decline in customer experience provides incentive for Apple to optimize the slower customer service folks out of the picture.
        reaperducer 5y ago
        They're human beings.
        stickfigure 5y ago
        What if it was 30-50 minutes longer? 3-5 hours longer? Yes, there are human beings on the other side of our daily transactions that should always be treated with respect. However, these are transactions, not social calls. I live 10 minutes away from an Ace hardware, 20 minutes away from Home Depot. I almost always go to Ace and pay a few dollars more because when I walk in the door, somebody immediately asks me if they can help me find what I'm looking for. They walk me to the isle and spend a few minutes discussing the various options. If I had to communicate awkwardly through a tablet, I'd honestly just spend a few more minutes driving and save the money. Sales is a communication-heavy job. It's pretty common already to offer extra pay for bilingual associates. I don't see what the difference is here; nobody would hire me for a job selling in Mandarin, even though I could run Google Translate on a tablet.
        ethbr0 5y ago
        > Sales is a communication-heavy job. I think this is the issue in a nutshell. And as a salesperson, you don't get to define the method by which customers want to interact with you. They're the ones with the money. You're the one trying to get the money. They get to have you meet them where they prefer.
      - iso1210 5y ago
        I'm not sure why I would need to talk to a customer service person in real life at apple. If I did (and I don't think I ever had) need to communicate my preference would be via email, or perhaps real time text chat. There's no reason someone who's deaf couldn't be on the end of those. I did however cancel a £1000 order with currys because they didn't provide anyone to talk to - by phone, email or even text chat (which only worked on some browsers). The only form of communication was 'fill this form in to cancel your order'.
        h4waii 5y ago
        So this is kind of a 'dark pattern' as it makes orders harder to cancel. I think it can be intentional sometimes.
        iso1210 5y ago
        Ironically with currys the only option that seemed possible was to cancel.
  - donarb 5y ago
    That's what self-service stands are for. Let the little old ladies argue about coupons all day long, I can get in and out with my few items quicker.
- krrrh 5y ago
  From my experience with a deaf employee at an Apple store, it was actually pretty efficient, because communication was precise and to the point and there was no unnecessary small talk or attempts to sell me something I wasn’t asking for. Might have been less appropriate for customers that walk in not knowing what they want.
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    Also seems like a great way to demo speech to text use by the customer
- sidkshatriya 5y ago
  It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    When I go to a store, I'm not doing it out of charity for the employees. I'm doing it because I want to buy something, in the most efficient and/or pleasant way possible. I'd much rather fund social programs which just outright support people with disabilities (and I'd like such programs to be more robust and empathetic than they are today). Frankly, if you're not going to be able to do your job well in the first place, this works out better for everyone.
    - technothrasher 5y ago
      Huh, I'm exactly the opposite. While I do donate money to social programs, any time I have the opportunity to help others I'd much rather it be with my time and efforts than with simply handing over cash for somebody else to deal with people who need assistance. It is much more fulfilling for me to be able to interact with people I'm helping, and who may help me some day. If this is as simple as taking a few more minutes to interact with a retail clerk that needs extra time communicating, that seems like an almost no effort opportunity.
      - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
        It depends on the extent of the disability, but if your job is to stand in a store and answer verbal questions, and you can't speak, there are probably better things to be doing with your life. Consider the other perspective here: I'd posit that all else being equal, most people would rather not have to go to work every day, particularly if "work" is a crappy retail job. We force most people to work because their jobs benefit the rest of society, but if someone can't work in a way that helps others, why force them to do it? Because it's not fair to everyone else? Because hard work is good for the soul? Screw that! Go read books, raise your children, live your life as best you can, and let the rest of us take care of you. If the situation were reversed, I'd expect you to do the same for us.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet Calm down. Breathe. You're buying something at a store, not performing surgery. Five minutes of your time is not necessarily more important than depriving someone of their livelihood. If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance.
  - fivetimesfifty 5y ago
    Except it’s not 5 minutes of just his time. It’s 5 minutes of 55 people every single day.
  - tonyarkles 5y ago
    > If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance. I'm stealing that line... thanks for the chuckle and snort on a Saturday morning.
- pc86 5y ago
  Then work with a different employee. The additional time in minimal. This is a pretty disgusting attitude, honestly. "I'm not willing to be in this store for 18 minutes instead of 16 minutes, how dare this handicapped person attempt to do their job and assist me!"
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    It won't take 2 more minutes to chat via text.
    - pc86 5y ago
      It's possible that you've missed the point.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > Then work with a different employee. But isn't this exactly the customer behavior Richard Dahan was complaining about?
- threecheese 5y ago
  This is similar to being annoyed at the disabled folks who are hired to bag groceries at supermarkets; it’s not a lot to ask for us to deal with suboptimal retail experiences if it gives the disabled earning/buying power, which has a net positive effect on society in general. You have agency here; you could choose to shop somewhere else, where they would prioritize your retail experience by not hiring the disabled. By the way this would also make you a giant knob :)
  - t-3 5y ago
    The self-service lanes at many grocery stores have lines even when human cashiers are available. People don't want others handling their groceries, because even fully able employees do a very poor job on average. Online shopping has exploded for similar reasons - convenience and choice for the customer trumps social good.

by imgabe 5y ago

ekianjo 5y ago

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

imgabe 5y ago
We don’t always get what we want when we go out into the public and deal with other people. Sometimes I want to zip in and out of the grocery store but there’s an old lady in front of me who wants to argue about an expired coupon and it takes longer than I’d like. Such is life.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  I stop shopping in places where the customer service is slow. Such is life.
  - kyleee 5y ago
    Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience with a deaf person and it took 3-5 minutes longer than it would have with a hearing person?
    - browningstreet 5y ago
      I’d be more inclined to get a kick out of the situation.
    - skzv 5y ago
      I'd be really happy to see we are accommodating people with disabilities. A reminder to me that if I lost my eyesight, hearing, or mobility, I won't be left behind.
    - optimiz3 5y ago
      Would you ditch Apple if you had a customer service experience and it took 3-5 minutes longer? Fixed it, and maybe. A decline in customer experience provides incentive for Apple to optimize the slower customer service folks out of the picture.
      - reaperducer 5y ago
        They're human beings.
        stickfigure 5y ago
        What if it was 30-50 minutes longer? 3-5 hours longer? Yes, there are human beings on the other side of our daily transactions that should always be treated with respect. However, these are transactions, not social calls. I live 10 minutes away from an Ace hardware, 20 minutes away from Home Depot. I almost always go to Ace and pay a few dollars more because when I walk in the door, somebody immediately asks me if they can help me find what I'm looking for. They walk me to the isle and spend a few minutes discussing the various options. If I had to communicate awkwardly through a tablet, I'd honestly just spend a few more minutes driving and save the money. Sales is a communication-heavy job. It's pretty common already to offer extra pay for bilingual associates. I don't see what the difference is here; nobody would hire me for a job selling in Mandarin, even though I could run Google Translate on a tablet.
        ethbr0 5y ago
        > Sales is a communication-heavy job. I think this is the issue in a nutshell. And as a salesperson, you don't get to define the method by which customers want to interact with you. They're the ones with the money. You're the one trying to get the money. They get to have you meet them where they prefer.
    - iso1210 5y ago
      I'm not sure why I would need to talk to a customer service person in real life at apple. If I did (and I don't think I ever had) need to communicate my preference would be via email, or perhaps real time text chat. There's no reason someone who's deaf couldn't be on the end of those. I did however cancel a £1000 order with currys because they didn't provide anyone to talk to - by phone, email or even text chat (which only worked on some browsers). The only form of communication was 'fill this form in to cancel your order'.
      - h4waii 5y ago
        So this is kind of a 'dark pattern' as it makes orders harder to cancel. I think it can be intentional sometimes.
        iso1210 5y ago
        Ironically with currys the only option that seemed possible was to cancel.
- donarb 5y ago
  That's what self-service stands are for. Let the little old ladies argue about coupons all day long, I can get in and out with my few items quicker.
krrrh 5y ago
From my experience with a deaf employee at an Apple store, it was actually pretty efficient, because communication was precise and to the point and there was no unnecessary small talk or attempts to sell me something I wasn’t asking for. Might have been less appropriate for customers that walk in not knowing what they want.
- dv_dt 5y ago
  Also seems like a great way to demo speech to text use by the customer
sidkshatriya 5y ago
It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  When I go to a store, I'm not doing it out of charity for the employees. I'm doing it because I want to buy something, in the most efficient and/or pleasant way possible. I'd much rather fund social programs which just outright support people with disabilities (and I'd like such programs to be more robust and empathetic than they are today). Frankly, if you're not going to be able to do your job well in the first place, this works out better for everyone.
  - technothrasher 5y ago
    Huh, I'm exactly the opposite. While I do donate money to social programs, any time I have the opportunity to help others I'd much rather it be with my time and efforts than with simply handing over cash for somebody else to deal with people who need assistance. It is much more fulfilling for me to be able to interact with people I'm helping, and who may help me some day. If this is as simple as taking a few more minutes to interact with a retail clerk that needs extra time communicating, that seems like an almost no effort opportunity.
    - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
      It depends on the extent of the disability, but if your job is to stand in a store and answer verbal questions, and you can't speak, there are probably better things to be doing with your life. Consider the other perspective here: I'd posit that all else being equal, most people would rather not have to go to work every day, particularly if "work" is a crappy retail job. We force most people to work because their jobs benefit the rest of society, but if someone can't work in a way that helps others, why force them to do it? Because it's not fair to everyone else? Because hard work is good for the soul? Screw that! Go read books, raise your children, live your life as best you can, and let the rest of us take care of you. If the situation were reversed, I'd expect you to do the same for us.
reaperducer 5y ago
Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet Calm down. Breathe. You're buying something at a store, not performing surgery. Five minutes of your time is not necessarily more important than depriving someone of their livelihood. If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance.
- fivetimesfifty 5y ago
  Except it’s not 5 minutes of just his time. It’s 5 minutes of 55 people every single day.
- tonyarkles 5y ago
  > If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance. I'm stealing that line... thanks for the chuckle and snort on a Saturday morning.
pc86 5y ago
Then work with a different employee. The additional time in minimal. This is a pretty disgusting attitude, honestly. "I'm not willing to be in this store for 18 minutes instead of 16 minutes, how dare this handicapped person attempt to do their job and assist me!"
- ekianjo 5y ago
  It won't take 2 more minutes to chat via text.
  - pc86 5y ago
    It's possible that you've missed the point.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > Then work with a different employee. But isn't this exactly the customer behavior Richard Dahan was complaining about?
threecheese 5y ago
This is similar to being annoyed at the disabled folks who are hired to bag groceries at supermarkets; it’s not a lot to ask for us to deal with suboptimal retail experiences if it gives the disabled earning/buying power, which has a net positive effect on society in general. You have agency here; you could choose to shop somewhere else, where they would prioritize your retail experience by not hiring the disabled. By the way this would also make you a giant knob :)
- t-3 5y ago
  The self-service lanes at many grocery stores have lines even when human cashiers are available. People don't want others handling their groceries, because even fully able employees do a very poor job on average. Online shopping has exploded for similar reasons - convenience and choice for the customer trumps social good.