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> Europe has been unwilling to throw their cards in with America 100% Why should they? America is an unreliable partner. They torpedoed a good deal with Iran,

> Europe has been unwilling to throw their cards in with America 100% Why should they? America is an unreliable partner. They torpedoed a good deal with Iran, mismanaged the withdrawing from Afghanistan, have been a nuisance regarding the building of pipelines between Germany and Russia and an overall destabilizing force in the Middle-East. Trump did happen. The fastest Europe separates itself from the American sphere of influence, the better.

ericmay 5y ago
> The fastest Europe separates itself from the American sphere of influence, the better. And now you know why the US and UK didn't give the slightest shit about how mad France got about this deal. NATO is dead, the US is leaving Europe for better or worse, wanted or not. And keep in mind I'm just doing my best at an interpretation/observation. Everything you cite here from the perspective of some or many European nations can be just reasons for not wanting to throw their cards in with the US... but the US can act too and say fine, then we're moving on to what we want to do with or without you. This is clearly occurring with the pivot to Asia and strengthening of alliances. Idk how things will shape up, but I wouldn't be shocked in the next 20-40 years to see free movement of trade and people between the US, Australia, and the UK.
- WastingMyTime89 5y ago
  I think you should take a look at the UK trade routes, import situation, geographic position and internal political situation.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Well what's the worst-case scenario? The US would just give the UK stuff if it came to that. But the UK will continue to trade with Europe and international partners. Probably won't be "as good" but this changing in geostrategy doesn't mean countries won't trade with each other or something... I mean the US and China and all that are a pretty good example. I mean the US trades with Russia even.
- skissane 5y ago
  > but I wouldn't be shocked in the next 20-40 years to see free movement of trade and people between the US, Australia, and the UK. I doubt that is going to happen for full free movement of people. I think Australia especially doesn't want to allow anyone from the US or the UK to move here. Professionals with degrees–doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, engineers, IT people, etc–I think the majority of Australians don't have a problem with that. But a flood of British retirees–or chavs–searching for sunny beaches? I can foresee agreements to streamline the process of getting a visa for university-educated professionals and make it easier and simpler and faster, but I doubt Australia will want to agree to doing away with the selectivity and just allow anybody, even American or British unskilled labourers with no particular qualifications, to immigrate.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Sure that can happen. I can also see Australia “opening up” as a condition of the alliance too. All speculative here so thanks for your thoughts!!!! (Serious)
systemvoltage 5y ago
> Why should they? America is an unreliable partner If this question was raised in 2015, it would have been unequivocally yes. So was last 4 decades of partnership with NATO. We have such a short-term memory and forgot the state of the world before the pandemic, let alone before Trump.

ericmay 5y ago

> The fastest Europe separates itself from the American sphere of influence, the better. And now you know why the US and UK didn't give the slightest shit about how mad France got about this deal. NATO is dead, the US is leaving Europe for better or worse, wanted or not. And keep in mind I'm just doing my best at an interpretation/observation. Everything you cite here from the perspective of some or many European nations can be just reasons for not wanting to throw their cards in with the US... but the US can act too and say fine, then we're moving on to what we want to do with or without you. This is clearly occurring with the pivot to Asia and strengthening of alliances. Idk how things will shape up, but I wouldn't be shocked in the next 20-40 years to see free movement of trade and people between the US, Australia, and the UK.

WastingMyTime89 5y ago
I think you should take a look at the UK trade routes, import situation, geographic position and internal political situation.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Well what's the worst-case scenario? The US would just give the UK stuff if it came to that. But the UK will continue to trade with Europe and international partners. Probably won't be "as good" but this changing in geostrategy doesn't mean countries won't trade with each other or something... I mean the US and China and all that are a pretty good example. I mean the US trades with Russia even.
skissane 5y ago
> but I wouldn't be shocked in the next 20-40 years to see free movement of trade and people between the US, Australia, and the UK. I doubt that is going to happen for full free movement of people. I think Australia especially doesn't want to allow anyone from the US or the UK to move here. Professionals with degrees–doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants, engineers, IT people, etc–I think the majority of Australians don't have a problem with that. But a flood of British retirees–or chavs–searching for sunny beaches? I can foresee agreements to streamline the process of getting a visa for university-educated professionals and make it easier and simpler and faster, but I doubt Australia will want to agree to doing away with the selectivity and just allow anybody, even American or British unskilled labourers with no particular qualifications, to immigrate.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Sure that can happen. I can also see Australia “opening up” as a condition of the alliance too. All speculative here so thanks for your thoughts!!!! (Serious)

systemvoltage 5y ago

> Why should they? America is an unreliable partner If this question was raised in 2015, it would have been unequivocally yes. So was last 4 decades of partnership with NATO. We have such a short-term memory and forgot the state of the world before the pandemic, let alone before Trump.