4 ms·

Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Remember, only the flagged imag

Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Remember, only the flagged images will be reviewed, and only they could ever be sent to law enforcement, so it wouldn't even reveal their private photos or anything like that.

heavyset_go 5y ago
> Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Because that requires possessing illegal images, while legal pornography that also happens to cause a hash collision with NeuralHash doesn't. Again, no one at Apple is reviewing the source image. They're reviewing obfuscated derivative images, and then informing law enforcement if they suspect they're illegal images. What law enforcement then does is get warrants for all of the accused's electronic devices and raids their home and workplace in order to collect evidence. It's another version of SWATing. Sure, eventually the authorities might find out that the accused isn't actually a mass shooter or holding hostages, but by then the damage is already done.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Why would the police raid you based on blurry versions of completely legal images? And are you really saying that the images Apple reviews are so blurry that they can’t review them? That seems like a very stupid system. In any case, your scenario sounds pretty far fetched. Even if it actually works, I wouldn’t say it’s a major blocker.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Why would the police raid you based on blurry versions of completely legal images? Because they have a reasonable suspicion that they're illegal images, and it's quite literally job of the police to collect evidence to determine whether or not a suspect can be charged with a crime or not. > And are you really saying that the images Apple reviews are so blurry that they can’t review them? That seems like a very stupid system. Are you saying that Apple built a system that can detect CSAM, and then chose to build a system for distributing and viewing said illegal material, considering that the acts of distributing and viewing CSAM are both very, very illegal? Again, it isn't Apple's job to determine what's CSAM or not, that's the job of the police and courts. Apple's obligation is to report what they believe could be CSAM to authorities, who will take the investigation from there.
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      >Are you saying that Apple built a system that can detect CSAM, and then chose to build a system for distributing and viewing said illegal material, considering that the acts of distributing and viewing CSAM are both very, very illegal? I'm saying that I'm pretty sure they will not turn you in to the police for possession of child porn without being damn sure that's what it is. How do you think the other FAANGs do it? I have never heard of anyone falsely reported for CSAM by Facebook for example, have you? Why would it be different for Apple? I really don't think you are being honest about this.

heavyset_go 5y ago

> Still, why not send actual CSAM then, so that they are actually caught? Getting them into review just causes them inconvenience. Because that requires possessing illegal images, while legal pornography that also happens to cause a hash collision with NeuralHash doesn't. Again, no one at Apple is reviewing the source image. They're reviewing obfuscated derivative images, and then informing law enforcement if they suspect they're illegal images. What law enforcement then does is get warrants for all of the accused's electronic devices and raids their home and workplace in order to collect evidence. It's another version of SWATing. Sure, eventually the authorities might find out that the accused isn't actually a mass shooter or holding hostages, but by then the damage is already done.

Grustaf 5y ago
Why would the police raid you based on blurry versions of completely legal images? And are you really saying that the images Apple reviews are so blurry that they can’t review them? That seems like a very stupid system. In any case, your scenario sounds pretty far fetched. Even if it actually works, I wouldn’t say it’s a major blocker.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > Why would the police raid you based on blurry versions of completely legal images? Because they have a reasonable suspicion that they're illegal images, and it's quite literally job of the police to collect evidence to determine whether or not a suspect can be charged with a crime or not. > And are you really saying that the images Apple reviews are so blurry that they can’t review them? That seems like a very stupid system. Are you saying that Apple built a system that can detect CSAM, and then chose to build a system for distributing and viewing said illegal material, considering that the acts of distributing and viewing CSAM are both very, very illegal? Again, it isn't Apple's job to determine what's CSAM or not, that's the job of the police and courts. Apple's obligation is to report what they believe could be CSAM to authorities, who will take the investigation from there.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    >Are you saying that Apple built a system that can detect CSAM, and then chose to build a system for distributing and viewing said illegal material, considering that the acts of distributing and viewing CSAM are both very, very illegal? I'm saying that I'm pretty sure they will not turn you in to the police for possession of child porn without being damn sure that's what it is. How do you think the other FAANGs do it? I have never heard of anyone falsely reported for CSAM by Facebook for example, have you? Why would it be different for Apple? I really don't think you are being honest about this.