5 ms·
> Most things we take for granted like being able to get a week's worth of groceries home in one trip or going to enjoy a restaurant that specializes in a niche
by lolpython 5y ago
> Most things we take for granted like being able to get a week's worth of groceries home in one trip or going to enjoy a restaurant that specializes in a niche style, or buying cheap goods at a warehouse store, or being able to get to a hospital within half an hour all require automobile infrastructure
It's possible to do these things without a car if your city has prioritized making that a reality. The exact mode depends on the city. Some examples:
* In the Netherlands, cycling infrastructure is strong enough that you can bike to a big box store outside the city and load up your bike with what you need [0]. You can fit a week's worth of goods in a cargo bike [1] if that's your style. There is also an argument to be made that you don't need to buy groceries weekly if your city is dense and you have a store nearby.
* In Pittsburgh, there are flyer (fast track) busses that will take you to malls in the northern car-oriented suburbs as well as light rail to the southern suburbs. So you can reach most niche stores in the metro area by bus/light rail. Although it's pedestrian hostile in the northern burbs. In the city proper, bus coverage is good enough to get basically anywhere including all the niche restaurants. Though light rail is more frequent and pleasant. Bus frequency and reliability is just OK, not great. Could be improved by changing priorities. My point here is that Pittsburgh's urban form is not great but they still came up with transit solutions that work for average people.
* In Toronto, busses run every 10 minutes on an enormous number of routes. This reduces transfer times so much that travel time is nearly on parity with cars, even though the city is very car-oriented.
I don't understand your note about hospitals because ambulances get the right of way and can travel in bus lanes.
> The fact is taking a leisurely stroll on a nice spring morning when you want to is very different from being forced to walk for miles through freezing rain in November after a long day of hard work.
I agree, but it's not so bad in a dense urban area with adequate bus shelters, sidewalk clearing and bus lines scattered everywhere.
> Anyone telling you that the simple existence of car infrastructure is the problem has not thought through what elimination of that infrastructure really means.
The simple existence of car infrastructure is the problem because it causes sprawl and exacerbates our climate emergency. Cities have already come up with the solution and that is good transit, active transit included.
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8F5hXqS-Ac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8F5hXqS-Ac
[1] https://www.bakfiets.nl/bestanden/afbeelding/2019/374-cargo-short-petrolblauw-bakfiets.jpg https://www.bakfiets.nl/bestanden/afbeelding/2019/374-cargo-...
- jjk166 5y agoSo what are these busses and ambulances driving on, exactly? I think you are describing lots of places where walkability has been achieved while maintaining perfectly functional road networks.
- lolpython 5y agoYour original comment asserted that cars are essential for getting around and accomplishing tasks that an average person needs to do. My comment was refuting that assertion. Now you are talking about what constitutes a walkable city which is a different discussion. > So what are these busses and ambulances driving on, exactly? Roads. I never proposed getting rid of those! I want to get rid of parking which again, is a different discussion. But it is surely one informed by our original topic which was whether cars are required for daily life. > I think you are describing lots of places where walkability has been achieved while maintaining perfectly functional road networks. Of the three I listed, only The Netherlands fits that description. There are disincentives to owning a car there, like limits on parking spaces. I believe true walkability and livability is only achieved when we modify traffic signaling and road infrastructure to prefer pedestrians, transit, and bikes over personal vehicles. Or if space allows, provide completely separate road networks for the modes so there are no conflicts, with more direct routes given to transit, peds and bikes. We also need to remove parking. The Netherlands has done these things. Pittsburgh and Toronto are not there yet. They are car-oriented cities with a transit system grafted on top. I'd be happy to go into more detail but we've outgrown the original topic of our discussion.
- JoeAltmaier 5y agoBusses don't let you transport a new TV set or six bags of groceries. And they add an hour to the trip. That ice cream is going to be wasted. Sure, folks use cars mostly to move just their body around. But on the occasions its more than that, a bus or bike is a very different proposition, an order of magnitude more onerous than a car. And btw using the Netherlands as a bicycle-nirvana doesn't translate. That's about the flattest nation on earth. Anywhere else, and hauling 200lbs of cargo is not the same joyful experience.