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> The reality is that you can build upon your genetic platform, but you are going to get to level where you simply can't compete against someone who is doing ev

> The reality is that you can build upon your genetic platform, but you are going to get to level where you simply can't compete against someone who is doing everything you are doing, but just have better genetics. This is the hardest thing for us to admit, culturally, even though there are some glaringly obvious examples, like height. That said, I think most people can generally train themselves to compete at high levels, just not not elite levels. For example, you see a good variety of people competing on decent college teams in all sorts of sports. It's just at the elite college level and above that you see people's shapes become more uniform.

typon 5y ago
It's also overstated, culturally, especially in online circles. Most people will never be elite in anything in their lives, so these genetic limits don't impact most people. They're sometimes used as a crutch to justify not working harder.
- theknocker 5y ago
  Yeah and also, culturally, sometimes there are hardasses who go around using that as an excuse to ignore individual differences when they're making demands of people or postulating how much credit they should receive for accomplishments that already benefit them.
elric 5y ago
> This is the hardest thing for us to admit, culturally Is it? It seems pretty obvious. And unless you're aiming to be an elite in whatever field, it's pretty much irrelevant. Barring serious defects, most people can do reasonably well in most disciplines (physical & mental) if they apply themselves. Of course, if everyone were to apply themselves equally, the genetic lottery would still win out, but that's not something that seems to happen?
- throwaway675309 5y ago
  Sure but you could argue that the ability to "apply oneself" is fundamentally just another neurological character trait also rooted in one's physiological characteristics which stem from your environment (family, socioeconomic background, etc) and your genetics... neither of which you had any control over.
- ramblerman 5y ago
  > Is it? John McEnroe got in trouble for suggesting Serena Williams couldn't compete in the top men's circuit. If we can't even discuss the biological differences at elite level between men and women without controversy, then yes I'd say so.
  - throwaway210222 5y ago
    > John McEnroe got in trouble for suggesting Serena Williams couldn't compete in the top men's circuit. There is no need (well, outside the student-union) to speculate about this. Serena lost in 2017 to the number 203 ranked man. And then he beat her sister. [1] https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/The-Man-Who-Beat-Venus-and-Serena-Back-to-Back.aspx https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/...
  - elric 5y ago
    Please don't mistake POCO behaviour from a loud minority with what is (or isn't) actually acceptable. Loud outrage is not a good benchmark for, well, anything at all really.

typon 5y ago

It's also overstated, culturally, especially in online circles. Most people will never be elite in anything in their lives, so these genetic limits don't impact most people. They're sometimes used as a crutch to justify not working harder.

theknocker 5y ago
Yeah and also, culturally, sometimes there are hardasses who go around using that as an excuse to ignore individual differences when they're making demands of people or postulating how much credit they should receive for accomplishments that already benefit them.

elric 5y ago

> This is the hardest thing for us to admit, culturally Is it? It seems pretty obvious. And unless you're aiming to be an elite in whatever field, it's pretty much irrelevant. Barring serious defects, most people can do reasonably well in most disciplines (physical & mental) if they apply themselves. Of course, if everyone were to apply themselves equally, the genetic lottery would still win out, but that's not something that seems to happen?

throwaway675309 5y ago
Sure but you could argue that the ability to "apply oneself" is fundamentally just another neurological character trait also rooted in one's physiological characteristics which stem from your environment (family, socioeconomic background, etc) and your genetics... neither of which you had any control over.
ramblerman 5y ago
> Is it? John McEnroe got in trouble for suggesting Serena Williams couldn't compete in the top men's circuit. If we can't even discuss the biological differences at elite level between men and women without controversy, then yes I'd say so.
- throwaway210222 5y ago
  > John McEnroe got in trouble for suggesting Serena Williams couldn't compete in the top men's circuit. There is no need (well, outside the student-union) to speculate about this. Serena lost in 2017 to the number 203 ranked man. And then he beat her sister. [1] https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/The-Man-Who-Beat-Venus-and-Serena-Back-to-Back.aspx https://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/November-2017-(1)/...
- elric 5y ago
  Please don't mistake POCO behaviour from a loud minority with what is (or isn't) actually acceptable. Loud outrage is not a good benchmark for, well, anything at all really.