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I exclusively buy newer used cars and keep them forever because 1) I want to suffer the pain of buying a car as rarely as possible 2) I want to let someone else
by bityard 5y ago
I exclusively buy newer used cars and keep them forever because 1) I want to suffer the pain of buying a car as rarely as possible 2) I want to let someone else take the big up-front depreciation hit that comes with that intoxicating new car smell.
Every car from a dealership these days comes with a CarFax and these have become mostly useless as a buying tool ever since they became a car sales tool. However, they do often give you some insight into where a car has been via registration and title changes.
I keep a record of recent hurricanes and where reports of flooding happened. If I'm looking at a car, the first thing I want to look at is the CarFax to see if it's ever been out of state so that I can cross-reference it to my hurricane/flooding list. If there is any indication that the car might have been in the same state at the time that a flood happened, it's an immediate hard pass. Doesn't matter if there's no visible evidence of being a flood car, doesn't matter if the title is green. Some outfits are very good at cleaning up flood cars to look close enough to normal that the average joe can't tell the difference. All flood cars are supposed to get a salvage title but a lot of them slip through the cracks. It doesn't take a lot of searching to find anecdotes from burned buyers online.
I have passed on several cars that looked like great deals but came from flood zones and possibly passed through the hands of a few unscrupulous auctions, mechanics, and dealers on their way to my region.
- llampx 5y agoIt's been a hot minute since I last saw a "barely used" car going for an appreciable discount over a brand new one. Even today you may be able to find a better deal on a new car where the dealership isn't adding a scalping fee. For the reliable cars like Honda Civics and in-demand ones the 1st year depreciation wasn't actually all that much compared to buying it new with a good dealer discount, urban legends notwithstanding.
- timgebrally 5y agoYeah for me when we were buying our next minivan Honda it was more important that we didn't end up buying the first cars in a generation refresh. The first year of a generation tends to have more bugs than others. New vs like-new doesn't matter for the big reliable mass produced cars. https://www.autolist.com/honda-odyssey/honda-odyssey-generations https://www.autolist.com/honda-odyssey/honda-odyssey-generat...
- ry4nolson 5y agoIf GP is like me, it's related to buying used higher end and/or "luxury" brand vehicles. In my experience, my previous 2 vehicles were 2 and 3 years old respectively and cost roughly ~60% of sticker price.
- Rebelgecko 5y agoI imagine this is a big motivator for car companies to start moving towards a CaaS model
- zetazzed 5y agoVolvo is trying this! They call it a car subscription. Doesn't seem like it has had a huge impact, though: https://www.volvocars.com/us/care-by-volvo/ https://www.volvocars.com/us/care-by-volvo/
- jjeaff 5y agoLooks exactly like a lease except they cover a few more things like tires? And even then, it says they cover cases of "excessive wear" which implies something wrong with the vehicle which the warranty should cover in either case. Is there any real difference besides the fact that you can order it online and that it appears much more expensive?
- jjeaff 5y agoTo answer my own question, looks like they include the insurance and they do pay to replace the tires if needed and you can cancel after 5 months, I guess.
- roland35 5y agoI thought it also includes insurance, and you could also swap cars at any point? So pretty similar but a little more than a lease.
- mkr-hn 5y agoThat's what a lease is.
- bugzz 5y agoSame here, we bought a new Subaru Crosstrek the end last year. Looking at the depreciation curve we found that the car didn't really depreciate more the first couple years than it did later years, so going for a new one made a lot more sense than I initially thought it would.
- tkojames 5y agoSame with my Subaru Forester! My car got totaled so I needed a new one. Used Forster that were 2-3 years old with 30k miles were selling for 24-26k with loan interest rate of 1.9 or so. I ended up by a brand new Forster xt for 28k with 0 interest loan from Subaru. Only cost me 2k more to get brand new car with full warranty vs a car that was 3 years old. Made back the difference in interest rate. I took a 5 year loan because why not no interest. I was never underwater on the car as put decent amount down.
- renewiltord 5y agoFairly annoyed they discontinued the Forester XT. Only reason I bought a used one.
- tkojames 5y agoI like it. I kinda wish I got the touring for eyesight for adaptive cruise control. But it came with leather and I was just not going to deal with leather. Though the outback XT is pretty good as it is 2.4 ascent engine so no premium.
- renewiltord 5y agoI got the touring and it’s definitely nice. The problem is that you can’t replace the head unit since the Harmon Kardon speaker system needs an extra amplifier. That means I don’t have CarPlay. Makes me sad. The ACC is a bit spiky. Could use some easing. But with everything on it’s not too bad in rush hour traffic when I don’t feel like taking the motorcycle out. Feet on the floor and it takes care of everything.
- smilekzs 5y agoSimply put, the ask-bid spread on barely-used and/or CPO cars are huge (read: they buy really low and sell really high). Dealers make a lot of money this way.
- grepfru_it 5y agoMy 2014 Ford is now selling for the same price I bought it for. I have only put 10k miles on it in the last 4 years. Tempted to sell it and wait for the recovery and pickup a new car at bargain basement prices
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xapata 5y agoDepends on the make and model.
- emodendroket 5y agoYeah the last two times I bought a car I just bought new with the plan to ride it out until it started becoming unreliable. Well, the first one I totaled instead so it didn't totally work out, but the second one is paid off and still running great, plus I know it has been maintained to a reasonable standard.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoI've done that with my wife's last two cars but in both cases we ended up spending a lot before we replaced them. This time we will swap them out a little earlier.
- hahajk 5y agoI haven’t looked at carfax in a while, how granular is the location data? I thought it just reported state, in which case you simply never buy a car that has been on the south or east coasts?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- throaway46546 5y agoIt is possible to "wash a title" by moving it through different states with different salvage title requirements/systems.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago> 1) I want to suffer the pain of buying a car as rarely as possible It is not that bad as of 5 years ago. You can email various dealerships and ask them to contact you if they are willing to sell at $x. If you are more desperate, you can ask them to email you their best offer. I was in and out in about 2 hours, just filled out forms based on what was discussed in the email and browsed on my phone in the meantime. You can even see the inventory online at the car brands' websites. Although that may have changed in the last 18 months due to extreme imbalance in supply and demand.
- throwawayboise 5y agoHow did you handle the extra fees and charges that appeared on the final paperwork and that had never been discussed?
- lotsofpulp 5y agoI would have walked out. But the emails I sent always made it clear I am only discussing total price, inclusive of everything. The few that were not able to clearly respond to my emails, I ignored. I have only bought 2 cars in my life, the same way, so my data set is not extensive. But I did get the idea from reading about it on forums, so I presume others are getting it done the same way. Actually, Costco has a program where the total out the door car price is set and non negotiable and I would assume the dealer would not want to screw you as that could cause you to report them to Costco and then Costco to sever ties with them. What I did is start at the Costco price and email a bunch of dealers and let them know I am interested if anyone wants to beat that price.
- ProjectArcturis 5y agoHow did you find out the Costco price? I tried this and it only told me the dealer who was their designated Costco liason, but, absurdly, wouldn't show me the price.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoEveryone who thinks they're smart by reading /r/personalfinance has figured this "hack" out. You're not saving much of anything by buying newish used cars unless you're buying the things that moneyed buyers flee from (Ford Foci, Chrysler 200s, other stereotypical fleet sedans from non-premium manufacturers), no a Camry/Accord do not meet these criteria.
- jjeaff 5y agoI buy 6-7 years old around with around 100k miles. A car that was $40k will sell for $15k of less. Saves so much money that I can easily put new interior, upgraded entertainment, new wheels etc and still come out way ahead. Cars made in the last 2 decades by most manufacturers tend to be very reliable, even well past the 200k miles mark. As for maintenance, just find a trustworthy Indy mechanic and never go back to a dealer again. Compared to family that always leases a new car, there really isn't much difference in repair downtime. New cars tend to have a lot of bugs to work out that have already been addressed in a well used car.
- tomcam 5y agoMy Indy mechanic is very good and very fast. Although it’s a little pricey. When I pulled in to get a new tire, he had 12 people change out all the tires. The good news is, they took less than 7.7 seconds. The bad news is, they charged me $14,000 and I still lost the race.
- gjs278 5y agoyou are so full of shit it hurts. first, new used cars barely offer a discount. second, how often exactly are you buying cars? carfax hasn’t even been out long enough for you to have done this more than once, and I doubt you even did it then. you sound like the kid in school who just makes up weird lies for no reason.
- chrisseaton 5y ago> I want to look at is the CarFax to see if it's ever been out of state I don't understand - I've crossed state lines in the US in a car and never had to inform anyone.
- rahimnathwani 5y agoI think he means if there's a record of being registered in a different state, or serviced in a different state.
- dwighttk 5y ago(E.g. one where there was flooding from his list)
- the_pwner224 5y agoCarFax gets data from state governments. If you move to Georgia, you'll register your car in Georgia, and the DMV will tell CarFax. Then the CarFax history will contain 'registered in Georgia on xx/xx/xxxx.' Same if you take the car for service to a shop in New Jersey; if the shop participates with CarFax then the record will include 'oil change and tire rotation @ (shop name), NJ w/ 3,300 miles' or something roughly along those lines.
- xwdv 5y agoYou are not coming out ahead. Buying a new car will have long term benefits compared to someone’s used car which may or may not have issues depending on the reason they sold it so soon. Also, if you can’t deal with the “pain” of buying a new car every few years you must find a lot of things really painful.
- smileysteve 5y agoAlternative view; a car that is in decent shape from a first owner, especially if that person put on mostly highway miles and had the first 50+k miles of maintenance paid for is definitely not a lemon. Anecdotally: bought a 2004 bmw from the original owner with 123k miles in 6 years. 7 years later. 185k miles, original clutch. (I'm also a mostly highway miles driver, but this also includes track days)
- void_mint 5y ago> Also, if you can’t deal with the “pain” of buying a new car every few years you must find a lot of things really painful. Buying cars sucks and is entirely why Carvana and Carmax exist.
- nikau 5y agoHere cars are leased on 3-4 year cycles, so its typically best to aim for one of those. Most people leasing cars do it for fashion reasons, so they are normally getting rid of the car to upgrade to the next shiny thing, not due to problems.
- serf 5y ago> You are not coming out ahead. Buying a new car will have long term benefits compared to someone’s used car which may or may not have issues depending on the reason they sold it so soon. Most people sell their new cars due to an expiring warranty period. Second most people sell their new cars due to the needs of a growing family. The third most people sell their new cars due to a changed financial situation. The fourth most people sell their new cars because they want even newer cars. 'Build quality dissatisfaction and reliability' is the fifth most common reason to sell a new car; or rather, to introduce a single-owner car to the used car market. I had a JD Power infographic from ~2013 that listed the reasons, but am having trouble finding it. Unless things have changed since 2013 signifigantly, most used cars that just exitted the factory warranty -- and sometimes factory maintenance umbrella -- have a lot of life left in them. Aside from that, a car that is a few years older has a significant price advantage on parts -- a feature that is attractive to capable DIYers and mechanics. And further aside from that -- if you're in the market for a used luxury brand car (Lexus/Infiniti/BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Porsche/ETC) , buying used allows one to side-step the dealer imposed major dealer-markup fees. Example : the E92 M3 MSRP from from 2009 was about 70,900~ USD. The dealership markup in North Hollywood was 30.5k. In 2010 that same car was worth ~67,000 USD on the used market. Many of these cars had less than 20,000 miles at the time of sale; buying a card with mileage that low is worth a 35,000 dollar discount to many people.
- void_mint 5y ago> I want to let someone else take the big up-front depreciation hit that comes with that intoxicating new car smell. It's interesting how people talk about "depreciation" of an item that pretty much never, if ever, increases in value.
- Paradigma11 5y agoWhat term would you prefer? It is a very useful concept.
- bfuller 5y agoBut not all cars depreciate at the same rate. For example for a few years Chevrolet Silverados were made with "cat eye" headlights. Those trucks hold their value far more than chevys with rectangle headlights, all other variables being equal.
- afpx 5y agoI buy new, end-of-year sales models. Drive them and sell them for a slight loss 2-3 years later to Car Max. For example, let's say the new car is $50,000. I wait until it's $42,000 or whatever, buy it, keep it for 2-3 years, and sell it for say $37,000. I've done that 4 times now. I don't understand the business model of Car Max, to be honest. There seems to be a lot of people who believe used cars are good deals, I guess.