4 ms·

It makes one despair that a few lines from a Clash song are used to discredit an entire scientific area of study.

debaserab2 5y ago
Especially considering the narrow interpretation the op is using for both songs. It's amazing how easily people will gaslight themselves. > The lyrics reflect the concern felt by Strummer about world events with the reference to "a nuclear error" – the incident at Three Mile Island, which occurred earlier in 1979. Joe Strummer has said: "We felt that we were struggling about to slip down a slope or something, grasping with our fingernails. And there was no one there to help us." > The line "London is drowning / And I live by the river" comes from concerns that if the River Thames flooded, most of central London would drown, something that led to the construction of the Thames Barrier.[1][5] Strummer's concern for police brutality is evident through the lines "We ain't got no swing / Except for the ring of that truncheon thing" as the Metropolitan Police at the time had a truncheon as standard issued equipment. Social criticism also features through references to the effects of casual drug taking: "We ain't got no high / Except for that one with the yellowy eyes". > The lyrics also reflect desperation of the band's situation in 1979 struggling with high debt, without management and arguing with their record label over whether the London Calling album should be a single or double album. The lines referring to "Now don't look to us / Phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust" reflects the concerns of the band over its situation after the punk rock boom in England had ended in 1977. Michael Stipe isn't exactly fond of explaining the meaning behind the lyrics of many of his songs but I somehow doubt the song was made to ease the concern of a real future climate catastrophe.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  That is the Wikipedia explanation, written by some random Wikipedia editor. If you want more explanations - which are just as subjective - there are plenty of 'Song meanings' sites around [1] where people can have their say without being edit-warred into oblivion by the Keepers of The Page at Wikipedia. [1] https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/52876/ https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/52876/ is just an example of such a site
  - debaserab2 5y ago
    It was the same wikipedia link that you cited. Even using your songmeanings.com link it doesn't appear that the common interpretation is satirical in nature.
    - the_third_wave 5y ago
      I linked to the Wikipedia page as a starting point for those who do not know the song. It is not meant to be an endorsement of the explanation of the lyrics' meaning. Have a look at the edit history for that page, it is quite lively. I think you are on to something though with respect to linking to Wikipedia, the time has probably come to stop linking to any potentially polarised/polarising page. I tend to link to Wikipedia out of habit and also laziness but it has lost whatever semblance of neutrality it had. Allmusic [1] has a page on the song but it it quite bland. Rolling Stone claims the song was originally called "Ice Age" and the lyrics are essentially a radio broadcast from a dystopian future that was easy to envision at that point in time [2] - which is the reason the current crop of panic porn reminds me of this track. [1] https://www.allmusic.com/song/london-calling-mt0008645476 https://www.allmusic.com/song/london-calling-mt0008645476 [2] https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/clash-london-calling-album-facts-923232/ https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/clash-london-calling-al...
the_third_wave 5y ago
Read it again, you seem to have missed the point. Those "few lines from The Clash" are used to discredit what I call panic porn, they do not target an entire scientific area of study. Also notice that The Clash was proclaiming the ice age is coming, referring to the then-current ice age scare. The scientific method can not work when extremes are used to attract attention, this eventually has the opposite effect of numbing the populace to yet another dire prediction of the coming collapse. It is disheartening to see how (some?) people at this forum are wont to discredit anyone who does not follow the current narrative. This is neither rational nor objective, it is emotional and subjective.
- scarmig 5y ago
  I'd encourage anyone to read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling to get a sense of whether most scientists were promoting an "ice age scare" in the 1970s. Spoiler alert: nope.
  - the_third_wave 5y ago
    It doesn't take all that many people who speak from a point of (real or perceived) authority to whip up a scare. Also, most scientists thought continental drift was a hoax [1] - that did not make it less true. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-continental-drift-was-considered-pseudoscience-90353214/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-continent...

Especially considering the narrow interpretation the op is using for both songs. It's amazing how easily people will gaslight themselves. > The lyrics reflect the concern felt by Strummer about world events with the reference to "a nuclear error" – the incident at Three Mile Island, which occurred earlier in 1979. Joe Strummer has said: "We felt that we were struggling about to slip down a slope or something, grasping with our fingernails. And there was no one there to help us." > The line "London is drowning / And I live by the river" comes from concerns that if the River Thames flooded, most of central London would drown, something that led to the construction of the Thames Barrier.[1][5] Strummer's concern for police brutality is evident through the lines "We ain't got no swing / Except for the ring of that truncheon thing" as the Metropolitan Police at the time had a truncheon as standard issued equipment. Social criticism also features through references to the effects of casual drug taking: "We ain't got no high / Except for that one with the yellowy eyes". > The lyrics also reflect desperation of the band's situation in 1979 struggling with high debt, without management and arguing with their record label over whether the London Calling album should be a single or double album. The lines referring to "Now don't look to us / Phoney Beatlemania has bitten the dust" reflects the concerns of the band over its situation after the punk rock boom in England had ended in 1977. Michael Stipe isn't exactly fond of explaining the meaning behind the lyrics of many of his songs but I somehow doubt the song was made to ease the concern of a real future climate catastrophe.

the_third_wave 5y ago
That is the Wikipedia explanation, written by some random Wikipedia editor. If you want more explanations - which are just as subjective - there are plenty of 'Song meanings' sites around [1] where people can have their say without being edit-warred into oblivion by the Keepers of The Page at Wikipedia. [1] https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/52876/ https://songmeanings.com/songs/view/52876/ is just an example of such a site
- debaserab2 5y ago
  It was the same wikipedia link that you cited. Even using your songmeanings.com link it doesn't appear that the common interpretation is satirical in nature.
  - the_third_wave 5y ago
    I linked to the Wikipedia page as a starting point for those who do not know the song. It is not meant to be an endorsement of the explanation of the lyrics' meaning. Have a look at the edit history for that page, it is quite lively. I think you are on to something though with respect to linking to Wikipedia, the time has probably come to stop linking to any potentially polarised/polarising page. I tend to link to Wikipedia out of habit and also laziness but it has lost whatever semblance of neutrality it had. Allmusic [1] has a page on the song but it it quite bland. Rolling Stone claims the song was originally called "Ice Age" and the lyrics are essentially a radio broadcast from a dystopian future that was easy to envision at that point in time [2] - which is the reason the current crop of panic porn reminds me of this track. [1] https://www.allmusic.com/song/london-calling-mt0008645476 https://www.allmusic.com/song/london-calling-mt0008645476 [2] https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/clash-london-calling-album-facts-923232/ https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/clash-london-calling-al...

the_third_wave 5y ago

Read it again, you seem to have missed the point. Those "few lines from The Clash" are used to discredit what I call panic porn, they do not target an entire scientific area of study. Also notice that The Clash was proclaiming the ice age is coming, referring to the then-current ice age scare. The scientific method can not work when extremes are used to attract attention, this eventually has the opposite effect of numbing the populace to yet another dire prediction of the coming collapse. It is disheartening to see how (some?) people at this forum are wont to discredit anyone who does not follow the current narrative. This is neither rational nor objective, it is emotional and subjective.

scarmig 5y ago
I'd encourage anyone to read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling to get a sense of whether most scientists were promoting an "ice age scare" in the 1970s. Spoiler alert: nope.
- the_third_wave 5y ago
  It doesn't take all that many people who speak from a point of (real or perceived) authority to whip up a scare. Also, most scientists thought continental drift was a hoax [1] - that did not make it less true. [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-continental-drift-was-considered-pseudoscience-90353214/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-continent...