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If your concerns are correct, shouldn’t we see a lot MORE collisions among the millions of current tesla drivers using the existing, less advanced system than w

If your concerns are correct, shouldn’t we see a lot MORE collisions among the millions of current tesla drivers using the existing, less advanced system than we do among comparable vehicles and drivers? Wouldn’t we expect to see higher insurance premiums for tesla drivers with FSD than for comparable drivers and comparably expensive cars? That doesn’t seem to be the case for the most numerous tesla vehicles[1]. In which case this sounds like a “it works in practice, but does it work in theory?” kind of situation :) [1] https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-much-are-tesla-insurance-costs/ https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-much-are-tesla-insur...

toss1 5y ago
Indeed - one thing insurers are good at is gathering good and relevant data! In this case, a quick skim shows the Tesla often more to insure than the regular car, but not a ton. What I'd want to see is the data for only the models with the "Full Self Drive" option. Not necessarily more, but we do see some really horrifying ones that humans would rarely do. E.g., the car in FL that just full-self-drove at full speed straight under a semi-trailer turning across the road, decapitating the driver, or the Apple exec that died piling into the construction divider on the highway because the Tesla failed to understand the temporary marks on the road. I'm fine with Tesla or other companies using and even testing automated driving systems on public roads (within reason). Ultimately, it should be better, and probably is already better than the average human. My objection is ONLY to the idea that the human driver should be considered 100% morally & legally responsible for any action of the car. Aside from the fact that the code is secret and proprietary, and even it's authors often cannot immediately see why the car took some action, the considerations of actual human performance make such responsibility a preposterous proposition. The maker of the autonomous system, and its user, must share responsibility for the actions of the car. When there is a disaster, it will, and should come down to a case-by-case examination of the actual details of the incident. Did the driver ask the car/system to do something beyond it's capabilities, or was s/he unreasonably negligent? Or, did the system do something surprising and unexpected? In the present situation, where the car started to make a sharp & surprising turn and almost ran over a pedestrian, it was Pure Dumb Luck that the driver was so attentive and caught it in time. If he'd been just a bit slower and the pedestrian was hit, I would place this blame 90%++ on Tesla, not the driver (given only the video). OTOH, there are many other cases where the driver tries to falsely blame Tesla. We just can't A Priori declare one or the other always at fault.

toss1 5y ago

Indeed - one thing insurers are good at is gathering good and relevant data! In this case, a quick skim shows the Tesla often more to insure than the regular car, but not a ton. What I'd want to see is the data for only the models with the "Full Self Drive" option. Not necessarily more, but we do see some really horrifying ones that humans would rarely do. E.g., the car in FL that just full-self-drove at full speed straight under a semi-trailer turning across the road, decapitating the driver, or the Apple exec that died piling into the construction divider on the highway because the Tesla failed to understand the temporary marks on the road. I'm fine with Tesla or other companies using and even testing automated driving systems on public roads (within reason). Ultimately, it should be better, and probably is already better than the average human. My objection is ONLY to the idea that the human driver should be considered 100% morally & legally responsible for any action of the car. Aside from the fact that the code is secret and proprietary, and even it's authors often cannot immediately see why the car took some action, the considerations of actual human performance make such responsibility a preposterous proposition. The maker of the autonomous system, and its user, must share responsibility for the actions of the car. When there is a disaster, it will, and should come down to a case-by-case examination of the actual details of the incident. Did the driver ask the car/system to do something beyond it's capabilities, or was s/he unreasonably negligent? Or, did the system do something surprising and unexpected? In the present situation, where the car started to make a sharp & surprising turn and almost ran over a pedestrian, it was Pure Dumb Luck that the driver was so attentive and caught it in time. If he'd been just a bit slower and the pedestrian was hit, I would place this blame 90%++ on Tesla, not the driver (given only the video). OTOH, there are many other cases where the driver tries to falsely blame Tesla. We just can't A Priori declare one or the other always at fault.