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One bullet point says: "On average Bitcoin generates 272 g of e-waste per transaction processed on the blockchain." So transactions on exchanges are less waste

by yawaworht1978 5y ago

One bullet point says: "On average Bitcoin generates 272 g of e-waste per transaction processed on the blockchain." So transactions on exchanges are less wasteful? A deposit from wallet to exchange generates the same pollution? Or is it "only" mined transactions? Does the transaction size matter?

tudorizer 5y ago
as opposed to how many grams over the regular banking system that is running on networks far less efficient than Bitcoin?
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  That does seem like the key question; do we have any way to get those numbers?
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  The big three CC companies process around 1.3 billion transactions per day, while Bitcoin processes around 250 thousand transactions per day. That's 5200x more transactions, and you claim they're less efficient than Bitcoin. So... those three companies use >5000x as much electricity as Argentina? (Bitcoin currently uses 150 TWh/year, 5200x that is about 30x global electricity generation FYI). (This is obviously not quite apples for apples, since you'd also have to account for VISA & Co. likely employing more people than Bitcoin, on the other hand, Bitcoin also requires absurd amounts of throw-away hardware.)
cryptica 5y ago
Transactions on exchanges do not affect the blockchain's state so they require orders of magnitude less energy... Making a trade on a centralized exchange or performing an off-chain transaction on a centralized wallet doesn't use much more energy than posting a Tweet on Twitter.
pjc50 5y ago
Transactions on exchanges are "free" because they don't use the blockchain - the single distinctive feature of bitcoin. Exchange accounts are equivalent to brokerage accounts, or uninsured bank accounts.
tiluha 5y ago
Transactions do not matter at all. The energy is used to mine blocks. The same energy is used whether the blocks contain transactions or are empty
- yawaworht1978 5y ago
  Ok so there's no value for a transaction, but rather for a block. However,many miners compete for a block, is this accounted for or is the number an average for the winning miner?
  - tiluha 5y ago
    I don't really get what you are saying, but the calculation for CO2 emissions per block is basically this: reward_per_block * price = value_per_block cost_per_hash * avg_hashes_to_find_block = cost_per_block cost_per_hash is the cost of electricity and mining hardware . If value_per_block > cost_per_block, mining is profitable and more miners will join the network, increasing avg_hashes_to_find_block, until value_per_block == cost_per_block. co2_emissions = avg_hashes_to_find_block * co2_per_hash. So the emissions are a function of the price of bitcoin and the price of (electricity + mining hardware).

tudorizer 5y ago

as opposed to how many grams over the regular banking system that is running on networks far less efficient than Bitcoin?

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
That does seem like the key question; do we have any way to get those numbers?
formerly_proven 5y ago
The big three CC companies process around 1.3 billion transactions per day, while Bitcoin processes around 250 thousand transactions per day. That's 5200x more transactions, and you claim they're less efficient than Bitcoin. So... those three companies use >5000x as much electricity as Argentina? (Bitcoin currently uses 150 TWh/year, 5200x that is about 30x global electricity generation FYI). (This is obviously not quite apples for apples, since you'd also have to account for VISA & Co. likely employing more people than Bitcoin, on the other hand, Bitcoin also requires absurd amounts of throw-away hardware.)

cryptica 5y ago

Transactions on exchanges do not affect the blockchain's state so they require orders of magnitude less energy... Making a trade on a centralized exchange or performing an off-chain transaction on a centralized wallet doesn't use much more energy than posting a Tweet on Twitter.

pjc50 5y ago

Transactions on exchanges are "free" because they don't use the blockchain - the single distinctive feature of bitcoin. Exchange accounts are equivalent to brokerage accounts, or uninsured bank accounts.

tiluha 5y ago

Transactions do not matter at all. The energy is used to mine blocks. The same energy is used whether the blocks contain transactions or are empty

yawaworht1978 5y ago
Ok so there's no value for a transaction, but rather for a block. However,many miners compete for a block, is this accounted for or is the number an average for the winning miner?
- tiluha 5y ago
  I don't really get what you are saying, but the calculation for CO2 emissions per block is basically this: reward_per_block * price = value_per_block cost_per_hash * avg_hashes_to_find_block = cost_per_block cost_per_hash is the cost of electricity and mining hardware . If value_per_block > cost_per_block, mining is profitable and more miners will join the network, increasing avg_hashes_to_find_block, until value_per_block == cost_per_block. co2_emissions = avg_hashes_to_find_block * co2_per_hash. So the emissions are a function of the price of bitcoin and the price of (electricity + mining hardware).