3 ms·

To an extent they do but they've refused to implement a lot of important features in iOS safari that are needed for fully capable PWAs.

maxwell 5y ago
Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?
- meibo 5y ago
  Push notifications are impossible on iOS PWAs. Basically takes out a big chunk of possible apps you could build on this, no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message.
  - maxwell 5y ago
    That's a good one, here's the feature request: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182566 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182566
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message. I deliberately disable push notifications in all messengers to avoids distractions, even though I'm actively using the messengers _when_ I want to sync with people.
    - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
      It's great that works for you. Other users have other priorities.
      - hvdijk 5y ago
        The claim was "no one wants x", the reply "I want x", your counter "others don't want x" as an attempt to dismiss the reply. That is unfair, the original claim that no one wants it was wrong and it was correct to point out that it was wrong.
        Guidii 5y ago
        The fundamental question is: would anyone choose to implement a messenger app as a PWA on a platform that doesn't support reliable notifications. "Nobody wants...." is probably best interpreted as "No developers want to build..."
        hvdijk 5y ago
        The idea of PWAs is that you make them once and they'll work on all platforms. The reality doesn't quite live up to that idea as this thread shows, but to me the idea to have single-platform PWAs still seems so odd that I would not interpret it that way. Still, if that was what was meant, then sure, I think I agree.
- lerela 5y ago
  Not a feature per se, but being in the process of building a PWA for iOS with access to the camera, the fact that the authorization dialog pops up every time the app is opened (meaning that the permission is not saved even if the PWA has not been modified) looks like a deliberate attempt to make this technology not truly viable, because it really provides terrible UX.
  - modeless 5y ago
    Same with geolocation permission. A maps app that has to ask permission for your location every time is at a major disadvantage.
    - maxwell 5y ago
      Might be fixed in the iOS 15 beta. Also could be workaround, but looks complicated: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39665367/how-to-prevent-wkwebview-to-repeatedly-ask-for-permission-to-access-location https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39665367/how-to-prevent-...
      - modeless 5y ago
        That "workaround" is only available for store apps, not PWAs. Apple would love if every web developer had to submit to their app store just to add features like geolocation and camera and notifications. And that's exactly what happens today.
  - maxwell 5y ago
    Yeah, I've run into that too. Seems to affect most/all permissions, e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213468 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213468 Looks like persistent permissions might be in the iOS 15 beta though: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228317 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228317 Also appears that they're implementing the Permissions API: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229504 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229504 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229590 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229590
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- the-dude 5y ago
  Isn't Chrome on iOS, just like every other browser on iOS, just Safari?
  - mcdevilkiller 5y ago
    It is. It's just a skin.
  - maxwell 5y ago
    Well, they all use WebViews, as far as I know, but Safari has its own browser UI "chrome". https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/webview https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/webview Before iOS 14.3, getUserMedia didn't work in WebViews. See note 3: https://caniuse.com/stream https://caniuse.com/stream
simondotau 5y ago
Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for? Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?
- tailspin2019 5y ago
  > Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website? PWA was touted in the comments as a possible alternative, but PWA on iOS is not a very viable alternative to a native app in my view. Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. Most apps I use on a daily basis could technically be websites, but that misses the point of why we like using platform-native apps in the first place. EDIT: It seems it is also a website. And that's blocked too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    > Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. It's worth mentioning that Navalny's team is funded via donations, and they could poll whether PWA is a viable option for communicating with their audience.
  - depressedpanda 5y ago
    > Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be Conversely, just because something could be a native app, doesn't mean that it should be. I use as few native apps as possible, as I much prefer the stronger sandboxing provided by the browser. Why do you think that Twitter and Reddit nag you to install their shoddy native apps every time you visit their shoddy websites?
- codedokode 5y ago
  Such PWA is easy to block because the government can block a website with it. A native app can use push notifications (which are encrypted) to receive data and the only way to block such an app would be to block access to Apple's servers completely.

maxwell 5y ago

Which features? getUserMedia is now supported in WebViews, so one can build, for instance, a FaceTime competitor that runs on Chrome on iOS, where it wasn't possible a few months ago. But the Fullscreen API still isn't supported, a blow to the web-based FT competitor. What else?

meibo 5y ago
Push notifications are impossible on iOS PWAs. Basically takes out a big chunk of possible apps you could build on this, no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message.
- maxwell 5y ago
  That's a good one, here's the feature request: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182566 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182566
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > no one wants e.g. a messenger that can't notify you when you get a message. I deliberately disable push notifications in all messengers to avoids distractions, even though I'm actively using the messengers _when_ I want to sync with people.
  - TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
    It's great that works for you. Other users have other priorities.
    - hvdijk 5y ago
      The claim was "no one wants x", the reply "I want x", your counter "others don't want x" as an attempt to dismiss the reply. That is unfair, the original claim that no one wants it was wrong and it was correct to point out that it was wrong.
      - Guidii 5y ago
        The fundamental question is: would anyone choose to implement a messenger app as a PWA on a platform that doesn't support reliable notifications. "Nobody wants...." is probably best interpreted as "No developers want to build..."
        hvdijk 5y ago
        The idea of PWAs is that you make them once and they'll work on all platforms. The reality doesn't quite live up to that idea as this thread shows, but to me the idea to have single-platform PWAs still seems so odd that I would not interpret it that way. Still, if that was what was meant, then sure, I think I agree.
lerela 5y ago
Not a feature per se, but being in the process of building a PWA for iOS with access to the camera, the fact that the authorization dialog pops up every time the app is opened (meaning that the permission is not saved even if the PWA has not been modified) looks like a deliberate attempt to make this technology not truly viable, because it really provides terrible UX.
- modeless 5y ago
  Same with geolocation permission. A maps app that has to ask permission for your location every time is at a major disadvantage.
  - maxwell 5y ago
    Might be fixed in the iOS 15 beta. Also could be workaround, but looks complicated: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39665367/how-to-prevent-wkwebview-to-repeatedly-ask-for-permission-to-access-location https://stackoverflow.com/questions/39665367/how-to-prevent-...
    - modeless 5y ago
      That "workaround" is only available for store apps, not PWAs. Apple would love if every web developer had to submit to their app store just to add features like geolocation and camera and notifications. And that's exactly what happens today.
- maxwell 5y ago
  Yeah, I've run into that too. Seems to affect most/all permissions, e.g. https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213468 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213468 Looks like persistent permissions might be in the iOS 15 beta though: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228317 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=228317 Also appears that they're implementing the Permissions API: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229504 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229504 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229590 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229590
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
the-dude 5y ago
Isn't Chrome on iOS, just like every other browser on iOS, just Safari?
- mcdevilkiller 5y ago
  It is. It's just a skin.
- maxwell 5y ago
  Well, they all use WebViews, as far as I know, but Safari has its own browser UI "chrome". https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/webview https://developer.apple.com/documentation/webkit/webview Before iOS 14.3, getUserMedia didn't work in WebViews. See note 3: https://caniuse.com/stream https://caniuse.com/stream

simondotau 5y ago

Specifically, could you list features that would be relevant to a PWA that takes your electoral division as input and returns information on who to vote for? Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website?

tailspin2019 5y ago
> Honestly I'm confused that if a PWA is a viable solution, why this isn't just a website? PWA was touted in the comments as a possible alternative, but PWA on iOS is not a very viable alternative to a native app in my view. Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. Most apps I use on a daily basis could technically be websites, but that misses the point of why we like using platform-native apps in the first place. EDIT: It seems it is also a website. And that's blocked too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28562772
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be. It's worth mentioning that Navalny's team is funded via donations, and they could poll whether PWA is a viable option for communicating with their audience.
- depressedpanda 5y ago
  > Just because a native app could be a PWA which in turn could be a website doesn't really say much about which of these it actually should be Conversely, just because something could be a native app, doesn't mean that it should be. I use as few native apps as possible, as I much prefer the stronger sandboxing provided by the browser. Why do you think that Twitter and Reddit nag you to install their shoddy native apps every time you visit their shoddy websites?
codedokode 5y ago
Such PWA is easy to block because the government can block a website with it. A native app can use push notifications (which are encrypted) to receive data and the only way to block such an app would be to block access to Apple's servers completely.