3 ms·

> Well they did, and developed a vaccination system which the anti-lockdown people refuse to take, because those people are not only anti-lockdown but are again

> Well they did, and developed a vaccination system which the anti-lockdown people refuse to take, because those people are not only anti-lockdown but are against anything coming from the governments I take issue with that statement! I haven't been COVID-jagged for one simple reason: I do not take experimental medical procedures whose only promise is to make me feel better if I catch COVID and doesn't prevent spreading or reinfection - I've had COVID recently with no side effects. I especially don't take experimental drugs made by companies that are immune from prosecution! There is a reason that vaccines take years to develop! On that note, what are the long-term side effects of the jag? Anyone got data on that? Edit: forgot a bit... and I'll be downvoted to hell but that will just reinforce my point

soco 5y ago
Can you please be more specific which vaccine you consider experimental? Because there are more types of vaccines underway: the mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) which are studied for the last 30 years including for Sars-cov-1, the vector vaccines with modified viri (J&J, AstraZeneca) used since 2013 against Ebola, and even the subunit vaccines like Novavax which are not approved yet for covid but used successfully for hepatitis B or pertussis. So which one is the experimental one? And why not taking another type?
- _Understated_ 5y ago
  > Can you please be more specific which vaccine you consider experimental? All of the COVID-related ones. There are no known long-term side effects as these drugs that have been injected into humans are only a few years old at most. According to Reuters [0] the trials are still ongoing. According to the UK government these vaccines were given out while still in trial [1] and some are ongoing. Whether that's standard practice or not, they are still working out the long-term side-effects. So what happens in 5 years? What data do we have on these? What happens if Alzheimers cases go through the roof in 5 years? Do we just throw our hands up and say, "Well, we never saw that coming!" By then there will be billions with the injections. Vaccines take up to 10 years to make [2]. There is no possible way you can simulate the long-term side effects. None whatsoever. You need to observe people that have taken it for years! You also need a diverse group of people: female physiology can change dramatically based on age. Asians, white people and black people may react differently to the injections and so on... there is no long-term data on these injections! None! [0] - https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitoring-idUSKBN2AC2G3 https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitor... [1] - https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-vaccines-november-update-progress-of-clinical-trials/ https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-vaccines-november-update... [2] - https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/12/vaccine-manufacturing-q-and-a/ https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/12/vaccine-manufacturing-q-and-a/
  - Goodthim 5y ago
    Ah you are probably a well educated vaccine researcher? Any papers you like to share? It are you an established doc? It's great to have independent experts here on hn. So we don't need to trust those experts who are in the global pandemic circles since beginning. Tell me more how you were able to conclude your Statements based in how you Google articles from the Internet which align with your world view :)
    - _Understated_ 5y ago
      For your information I trust nothing about COVID that has been published either by mainstream media, social media or alt media now. Nothing at all. As far as I am concerned there are far too many people with vested interests polluting the waters. I was merely linking to mainstream media sources as most people on here appear to shoot down anything that isn't mainstream media or mainstream thinking. For the last several months, when I come across an article that has "science" about COVID in it I automatically look for peer-reviewed papers in the text. I don't care if Albert Einstein himself told me that the COVID vaccine is safe, or if he said I will die from COVID... unless there is a peer-reviewed scientific paper I will disregard anything said by that media outlet. Too many sources are just quoting scientists and celebrities about how safe (or how dangerous) vaccines (and other info) are. No one questions anything [0] I'm fucking sick of the lack of critical thinking! I'm fucking sick of not being able to question something without getting downvoted, shouted down, branded a conspiracy theorist. The fundamental core of science is that I can question it! This is no longer allowed. It's dogma, religion, whatever you want to call it, not science! COVID is no longer about science any more. There is literally no science behind giving 12 year old children an experimental drug that has a higher chance of inflaming their heart than it does of preventing COVID symptoms... FFS, only 25 people in the UK under the age of 18 died last year from COVID! [1] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/uk-covid-vaccinations-for-children-aged-12-15-what-you-need-to-know https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/uk-covid-vacci...
      - angelzen 5y ago
Goodthim 5y ago
Numbers tell a different story. Getting the jab is less risky than not. I'm most surprised to read comments like yours on hn. I don't know why but I wouldn't have expected this. People who read hn should be able to Research better and be able to read numbers better than the avg.
- _Understated_ 5y ago
  Ok, so please, show me the list of side effects after 5 or 10 years of trials. Does that information exist? Edit: sounded a bit snarky, toned it down a touch
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    Well, the bet you're making is that the side effects after 5 or 10 years of Coronavirus, a disease that causes literal brain damage, are better than the side effects of the vaccine. I was also pretty unenthusiastic about taking an experimental vaccine, but I was more unenthusiastic about getting coronavirus or, worse, giving it to somebody who was more vulnerable.
    - _Understated_ 5y ago
      > a disease that causes literal brain damage For a tiny tiny fraction of the population! You forgot that bit.
soco 5y ago
How I see it is the following: we were discussing about anti-lockdown. When I brought an argument against that attitude, I got replies about vaccine safety. When I addressed the vaccine safety, I got replies about diversity. This is what makes me repeat the above (even though heavily downvoted) conclusion: most people "against" are "against everything" on an ideological stance, be it on the streets or on hn. I'm an engineer former researcher and this lack of willingness to dialogue pains me deeply, going against everything I was trained to practice.
- _Understated_ 5y ago
  > I'm an engineer former researcher and this lack of willingness to dialogue pains me deeply I want dialogue! I want lots of it. I want people on mainstream media and social media to question all science. They are not able to. They are not allowed. The BBC will not have anyone on any show that questions the dogma! It's not science. Science is when I can question your results, or try to replicate your results, or come up with alternative hypotheses etc. This isn't allowed today! If I publich legit research on Twitter that goes against the mainstream government data on COVID, it will be banned. Social media are notorious for only allowing people to speak in positive tones about all the mainstream COVID information. I'd love to have proper discussions but that's not possible these days!

soco 5y ago

Can you please be more specific which vaccine you consider experimental? Because there are more types of vaccines underway: the mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) which are studied for the last 30 years including for Sars-cov-1, the vector vaccines with modified viri (J&J, AstraZeneca) used since 2013 against Ebola, and even the subunit vaccines like Novavax which are not approved yet for covid but used successfully for hepatitis B or pertussis. So which one is the experimental one? And why not taking another type?

_Understated_ 5y ago
> Can you please be more specific which vaccine you consider experimental? All of the COVID-related ones. There are no known long-term side effects as these drugs that have been injected into humans are only a few years old at most. According to Reuters [0] the trials are still ongoing. According to the UK government these vaccines were given out while still in trial [1] and some are ongoing. Whether that's standard practice or not, they are still working out the long-term side-effects. So what happens in 5 years? What data do we have on these? What happens if Alzheimers cases go through the roof in 5 years? Do we just throw our hands up and say, "Well, we never saw that coming!" By then there will be billions with the injections. Vaccines take up to 10 years to make [2]. There is no possible way you can simulate the long-term side effects. None whatsoever. You need to observe people that have taken it for years! You also need a diverse group of people: female physiology can change dramatically based on age. Asians, white people and black people may react differently to the injections and so on... there is no long-term data on these injections! None! [0] - https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitoring-idUSKBN2AC2G3 https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-vaccine-monitor... [1] - https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-vaccines-november-update-progress-of-clinical-trials/ https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-vaccines-november-update... [2] - https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/12/vaccine-manufacturing-q-and-a/ https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/12/vaccine-manufacturing-q-and-a/
- Goodthim 5y ago
  Ah you are probably a well educated vaccine researcher? Any papers you like to share? It are you an established doc? It's great to have independent experts here on hn. So we don't need to trust those experts who are in the global pandemic circles since beginning. Tell me more how you were able to conclude your Statements based in how you Google articles from the Internet which align with your world view :)
  - _Understated_ 5y ago
    For your information I trust nothing about COVID that has been published either by mainstream media, social media or alt media now. Nothing at all. As far as I am concerned there are far too many people with vested interests polluting the waters. I was merely linking to mainstream media sources as most people on here appear to shoot down anything that isn't mainstream media or mainstream thinking. For the last several months, when I come across an article that has "science" about COVID in it I automatically look for peer-reviewed papers in the text. I don't care if Albert Einstein himself told me that the COVID vaccine is safe, or if he said I will die from COVID... unless there is a peer-reviewed scientific paper I will disregard anything said by that media outlet. Too many sources are just quoting scientists and celebrities about how safe (or how dangerous) vaccines (and other info) are. No one questions anything [0] I'm fucking sick of the lack of critical thinking! I'm fucking sick of not being able to question something without getting downvoted, shouted down, branded a conspiracy theorist. The fundamental core of science is that I can question it! This is no longer allowed. It's dogma, religion, whatever you want to call it, not science! COVID is no longer about science any more. There is literally no science behind giving 12 year old children an experimental drug that has a higher chance of inflaming their heart than it does of preventing COVID symptoms... FFS, only 25 people in the UK under the age of 18 died last year from COVID! [1] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment [1] - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/uk-covid-vaccinations-for-children-aged-12-15-what-you-need-to-know https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/14/uk-covid-vacci...
    - angelzen 5y ago

Goodthim 5y ago

Numbers tell a different story. Getting the jab is less risky than not. I'm most surprised to read comments like yours on hn. I don't know why but I wouldn't have expected this. People who read hn should be able to Research better and be able to read numbers better than the avg.

_Understated_ 5y ago
Ok, so please, show me the list of side effects after 5 or 10 years of trials. Does that information exist? Edit: sounded a bit snarky, toned it down a touch
- pasabagi 5y ago
  Well, the bet you're making is that the side effects after 5 or 10 years of Coronavirus, a disease that causes literal brain damage, are better than the side effects of the vaccine. I was also pretty unenthusiastic about taking an experimental vaccine, but I was more unenthusiastic about getting coronavirus or, worse, giving it to somebody who was more vulnerable.
  - _Understated_ 5y ago
    > a disease that causes literal brain damage For a tiny tiny fraction of the population! You forgot that bit.

soco 5y ago

How I see it is the following: we were discussing about anti-lockdown. When I brought an argument against that attitude, I got replies about vaccine safety. When I addressed the vaccine safety, I got replies about diversity. This is what makes me repeat the above (even though heavily downvoted) conclusion: most people "against" are "against everything" on an ideological stance, be it on the streets or on hn. I'm an engineer former researcher and this lack of willingness to dialogue pains me deeply, going against everything I was trained to practice.

_Understated_ 5y ago
> I'm an engineer former researcher and this lack of willingness to dialogue pains me deeply I want dialogue! I want lots of it. I want people on mainstream media and social media to question all science. They are not able to. They are not allowed. The BBC will not have anyone on any show that questions the dogma! It's not science. Science is when I can question your results, or try to replicate your results, or come up with alternative hypotheses etc. This isn't allowed today! If I publich legit research on Twitter that goes against the mainstream government data on COVID, it will be banned. Social media are notorious for only allowing people to speak in positive tones about all the mainstream COVID information. I'd love to have proper discussions but that's not possible these days!