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This is like everyone gets the problem but saying they don't. You didn't get cheated, but you feel cheated. And for the umpteenth time, you're always say to s

This is like everyone gets the problem but saying they don't. You didn't get cheated, but you feel cheated. And for the umpteenth time, you're always say to say "fuck your feelings, you knew the deal", but that works both ways, you know the deal on why people are going to feel cheated... If Mailchimp's founders had never mentioned not selling (or were just ruthless) I'm sure that 500m fund would look a lot different... - Also you wanted an example, here's one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28561963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28561963

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>This is like everyone gets the problem but saying they don't. no, this more like me thinking huh I guess there might be a problem here but I have a hard time conceiving of how there actually would be one. Also I guess I would like an example in the actual scenario - people owning company saying they never sell but then they do many years down the road, people have changed their behavior on this promise how? Are you saying that there were people who would have said no I don't want to work at market rate for you if you're going to sell in the future, I will only work for you for equity if you intend to sell. That's what that example implies to me? Maybe my imagination is failing again here but that sounds crazy, although I have to admit playing the lottery sounds crazy to me anyway so...
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  Maybe it's just over your head, and that's ok. And to be clear, I'm not saying that to be mean, but for example, if you get hung up because a lottery is used as an analogy for startup equity (which might as well be a lottery), then it really might be a little past you.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    or again, as a lottery is generally described as a tax on stupidity, I would wonder why anyone complains about getting money instead of a chance to participate in a lottery.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      I really shouldn't have to teach the concept of an analogy from first principles to what I assume is a grown adult, yet here we are... They're leaky abstractions. Here the part that doesn't map perfectly is it's not either/or, it's a sliding scale. People at other startups make a market rate and get a little equity, some get below market rate and a lot of equity. Even at the same company people can negotiate their position on that scale, trading one for the other. But you were told essentially "the equity will never have value so don't worry about that scale". But it turns out the equity could have value. The analogy works to convey why people are feeling a certain way, it's not a 1:1 mapping to how startup equity is. That disconnect is what the words "might as well be" convey: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/171622 https://english.stackexchange.com/a/171622 - Additionally unlike a true lottery there is some form of control and information on outcomes, it might feel random because companies can and do fail for unforeseen reasons, but it's not like someone is throwing darts at a board to choose which tech startup closes its doors today... - Really I don't understand your deep lack of understanding if you're in this industry, have you never been given large amounts of equity before? I personally chose a company that gave me solid cash compensation, but not as much as a competing offer, because they offered a lot of equity. I believed in their fundamentals and their position in the market. Unsurprisingly the company continued to execute well and the equity ended up being worth more than quadruple my cash compensation. I understand not relying on equity returns to plan out your financial future, but I really don't get a blanket mentality of only taking money upfront and not diversifying. Do you not invest in the stock market either? Because that's also pretty similar to this situation... if your holdings crater to near nothing the fact you have liquidity from being on the public market doesn't really help...

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>This is like everyone gets the problem but saying they don't. no, this more like me thinking huh I guess there might be a problem here but I have a hard time conceiving of how there actually would be one. Also I guess I would like an example in the actual scenario - people owning company saying they never sell but then they do many years down the road, people have changed their behavior on this promise how? Are you saying that there were people who would have said no I don't want to work at market rate for you if you're going to sell in the future, I will only work for you for equity if you intend to sell. That's what that example implies to me? Maybe my imagination is failing again here but that sounds crazy, although I have to admit playing the lottery sounds crazy to me anyway so...

BoorishBears 5y ago
Maybe it's just over your head, and that's ok. And to be clear, I'm not saying that to be mean, but for example, if you get hung up because a lottery is used as an analogy for startup equity (which might as well be a lottery), then it really might be a little past you.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  or again, as a lottery is generally described as a tax on stupidity, I would wonder why anyone complains about getting money instead of a chance to participate in a lottery.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    I really shouldn't have to teach the concept of an analogy from first principles to what I assume is a grown adult, yet here we are... They're leaky abstractions. Here the part that doesn't map perfectly is it's not either/or, it's a sliding scale. People at other startups make a market rate and get a little equity, some get below market rate and a lot of equity. Even at the same company people can negotiate their position on that scale, trading one for the other. But you were told essentially "the equity will never have value so don't worry about that scale". But it turns out the equity could have value. The analogy works to convey why people are feeling a certain way, it's not a 1:1 mapping to how startup equity is. That disconnect is what the words "might as well be" convey: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/171622 https://english.stackexchange.com/a/171622 - Additionally unlike a true lottery there is some form of control and information on outcomes, it might feel random because companies can and do fail for unforeseen reasons, but it's not like someone is throwing darts at a board to choose which tech startup closes its doors today... - Really I don't understand your deep lack of understanding if you're in this industry, have you never been given large amounts of equity before? I personally chose a company that gave me solid cash compensation, but not as much as a competing offer, because they offered a lot of equity. I believed in their fundamentals and their position in the market. Unsurprisingly the company continued to execute well and the equity ended up being worth more than quadruple my cash compensation. I understand not relying on equity returns to plan out your financial future, but I really don't get a blanket mentality of only taking money upfront and not diversifying. Do you not invest in the stock market either? Because that's also pretty similar to this situation... if your holdings crater to near nothing the fact you have liquidity from being on the public market doesn't really help...