4 ms·

Because Canada is the closest country on earth to the US culturally and Australia and New Zealand are not far behind. Also, poverty tends to increase crime and

Because Canada is the closest country on earth to the US culturally and Australia and New Zealand are not far behind. Also, poverty tends to increase crime and CA/AU/NZ are closer to US economically as well, while Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and South Africa are far behind. If you want to pick one country to compare it to the US, it only makes sense to pick Canada. Argentina is very far down the list. The main difference between Canada and US (and to a great extent Australia and New Zealand) are not cultural or economical. The main differences are in access to firearms. I fully expect Canada's murder rate to rise to US levels if US gun laws were adopted here.

blix 5y ago
There are a few very significant cultural/economic differences between the USA and Canada/Austrial/NZ. The biggest one is that only the USA has a legacy of slavery. The USA has much higher population density as well. The USA is also somewhat more economically unequal than the other 3. The USA is more diverse than any of the other 3, especially Canada and Australia. These factors might play a role in gun violence.
- ikr678 5y ago
  The US is the least diverse of those countries. Australia has 30%(2019) of foreign born resident's to NZ's 27.4%(2018),Canada's 20%(2016) and the US's 13.7%(2018)
  - blix 5y ago
    "Foreign born" is really not the best judge of diversity in this context imo. I would instead look at the fraction of population that has European ancestry. I have not seen many statistics linking foreign-born residents to higher crime, but locally-born oppressed minority populations (e.g. Black, Aboriginal, Native, Maori) are disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system due to ongoing legacies of systemic violence.
    - mpweiher 5y ago
      Generally, when you correct for poverty, those differences disappear.
      - laverya 5y ago
        I thought the whole point of the ongoing systemic racism debates in the US was that even after correcting for poverty, African Americans still had worse outcomes on essentially every metric from college graduation to murder rate?
        mpweiher 5y ago
        While there are almost certainly small variations, the high order bit is economics. By a wide margin. This is almost invariably left out of the equation when these things are reported. Just like the so-called "gender wage gap", which is at best a "gender earnings gap", because pay is equivalent, dissipates almost entirely when you account for things like occupation and hours worked.
        blix 5y ago
        Even if you accept that differences are solely economic (this a very tough sell for raical inequality imo, it's far from fully explained by economics), that leaves you with the question of why are black people disproportionately impoverished. This is a tougher question than why women tend to work fewer hours.
        mpweiher 5y ago
        Hmmm...I used "generally" and "high order bit". Somehow this turned into "solely". Why? And I am fully aware that these facts are a "tough sell" these days, because they don't fit the prevailing narrative. Another one: yes, the criminal justice system is biased against blacks. However, it is vastly more biased against males. By a 6:1 margin. And yes, I agree that the question why black people who are not recent immigrants are disproportionately impoverished is important to answer. It is important to ask the right questions if you want to get a usable answer. And I doubt there is a unifactorial answer. Why the "who are not recent immigrants"? Black people who are recent immigrants from Africa actually do better economically than whites.
  - random314 5y ago
    Please dont prick the right wing narrative of "homogeneous culture" which is a dog whistle for "racial segregation amongst countries".
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    So 13% native black population, a higher percentage native born Hispanic population, multiple generations of multiple different Asian cultures, these dont count? Why? All your metric does is demonstrate who began allowing immigration first.
    - smnrchrds 5y ago
      US is 76.3% white compared to Canada's 77.7% white. Still pretty similar. Actually, US's numbers are from 2019 but Canada's are from 2016. Canada's percentage should be lower than US's now, given the difference in their annual immigration numbers. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible... Or if you want to do the math yourself: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=01&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&Data=Count&SearchText=canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&TABID=1 https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/pr...
      - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
        I think 76.3% white is misleading because, while the U.S. Census Bureau counts hispanic people as "white", basically no North American's intuitive model of race or ethnicity would count hispanics as white. Which is why the Census is always careful to break out non-Hispanic white. The real comparison is non-Hispanic white to non-Hispanic white, where it becomes ~55% to ~75% or so. Hispanic people in the U.S. are easily visually differentiable, most often have one or more languages aside from, or instead of, English and come from cultures that are markedly different than mainstream U.S. culture.
      - blix 5y ago
        It's getting into the weeds a little, but there are also likely differences between local vanquished populations, immigrants and their descendants who arrive voluntarily by air/sea, those who arrive voluntarily by land and those who arrive involuntarily. Canada and the USA are close overall, but Canada's immigrants are much more likely to be educated professionals than those coming to the USA. And since Canada never implemented widespread slavery, there really isn't an analog to the experience of black Americans. I think that is a very big factor.
inter_netuser 5y ago
Canada might watch the same TV as the US, but criminal laws and attitudes/views/gun laws are VERY different.
betwixthewires 5y ago
None of this has to do with what I asked you. What do you think the driver is for the violent crime rate in Argentina that doesn't apply to the US?
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  Economy and poverty
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    Alright. And what about the US precludes these from being the cause rather than guns?
    - smnrchrds 5y ago
      Because its poverty and economy are like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand much much much more than Argentina.

blix 5y ago

There are a few very significant cultural/economic differences between the USA and Canada/Austrial/NZ. The biggest one is that only the USA has a legacy of slavery. The USA has much higher population density as well. The USA is also somewhat more economically unequal than the other 3. The USA is more diverse than any of the other 3, especially Canada and Australia. These factors might play a role in gun violence.

ikr678 5y ago
The US is the least diverse of those countries. Australia has 30%(2019) of foreign born resident's to NZ's 27.4%(2018),Canada's 20%(2016) and the US's 13.7%(2018)
- blix 5y ago
  "Foreign born" is really not the best judge of diversity in this context imo. I would instead look at the fraction of population that has European ancestry. I have not seen many statistics linking foreign-born residents to higher crime, but locally-born oppressed minority populations (e.g. Black, Aboriginal, Native, Maori) are disproportionately represented in the criminal justice system due to ongoing legacies of systemic violence.
  - mpweiher 5y ago
    Generally, when you correct for poverty, those differences disappear.
    - laverya 5y ago
      I thought the whole point of the ongoing systemic racism debates in the US was that even after correcting for poverty, African Americans still had worse outcomes on essentially every metric from college graduation to murder rate?
      - mpweiher 5y ago
        While there are almost certainly small variations, the high order bit is economics. By a wide margin. This is almost invariably left out of the equation when these things are reported. Just like the so-called "gender wage gap", which is at best a "gender earnings gap", because pay is equivalent, dissipates almost entirely when you account for things like occupation and hours worked.
        blix 5y ago
        Even if you accept that differences are solely economic (this a very tough sell for raical inequality imo, it's far from fully explained by economics), that leaves you with the question of why are black people disproportionately impoverished. This is a tougher question than why women tend to work fewer hours.
        mpweiher 5y ago
        Hmmm...I used "generally" and "high order bit". Somehow this turned into "solely". Why? And I am fully aware that these facts are a "tough sell" these days, because they don't fit the prevailing narrative. Another one: yes, the criminal justice system is biased against blacks. However, it is vastly more biased against males. By a 6:1 margin. And yes, I agree that the question why black people who are not recent immigrants are disproportionately impoverished is important to answer. It is important to ask the right questions if you want to get a usable answer. And I doubt there is a unifactorial answer. Why the "who are not recent immigrants"? Black people who are recent immigrants from Africa actually do better economically than whites.
- random314 5y ago
  Please dont prick the right wing narrative of "homogeneous culture" which is a dog whistle for "racial segregation amongst countries".
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  So 13% native black population, a higher percentage native born Hispanic population, multiple generations of multiple different Asian cultures, these dont count? Why? All your metric does is demonstrate who began allowing immigration first.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    US is 76.3% white compared to Canada's 77.7% white. Still pretty similar. Actually, US's numbers are from 2019 but Canada's are from 2016. Canada's percentage should be lower than US's now, given the difference in their annual immigration numbers. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045219 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible_minority_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Visible... Or if you want to do the math yourself: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=01&Geo2=PR&Code2=01&Data=Count&SearchText=canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&TABID=1 https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/pr...
    - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
      I think 76.3% white is misleading because, while the U.S. Census Bureau counts hispanic people as "white", basically no North American's intuitive model of race or ethnicity would count hispanics as white. Which is why the Census is always careful to break out non-Hispanic white. The real comparison is non-Hispanic white to non-Hispanic white, where it becomes ~55% to ~75% or so. Hispanic people in the U.S. are easily visually differentiable, most often have one or more languages aside from, or instead of, English and come from cultures that are markedly different than mainstream U.S. culture.
    - blix 5y ago
      It's getting into the weeds a little, but there are also likely differences between local vanquished populations, immigrants and their descendants who arrive voluntarily by air/sea, those who arrive voluntarily by land and those who arrive involuntarily. Canada and the USA are close overall, but Canada's immigrants are much more likely to be educated professionals than those coming to the USA. And since Canada never implemented widespread slavery, there really isn't an analog to the experience of black Americans. I think that is a very big factor.

inter_netuser 5y ago

Canada might watch the same TV as the US, but criminal laws and attitudes/views/gun laws are VERY different.

betwixthewires 5y ago

None of this has to do with what I asked you. What do you think the driver is for the violent crime rate in Argentina that doesn't apply to the US?

smnrchrds 5y ago
Economy and poverty
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  Alright. And what about the US precludes these from being the cause rather than guns?
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    Because its poverty and economy are like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand much much much more than Argentina.