8 ms·

I grew up in an area where people have these signs and bumper stickers, and never had a problem socializing. I saw no evidence that people couldn't trust their

I grew up in an area where people have these signs and bumper stickers, and never had a problem socializing. I saw no evidence that people couldn't trust their neighbors or community. I've seen these in rural and urban places as well, and still haven't seen any issue like what you're suggesting. What's the problem supposed to be?

adamredwoods 5y ago
How do those signs introduce trust by advertising violence? Furthermore, I do not want my children playing with other families who have guns inside the household. I don't see it as safe. Why hang a sign that insinuates "I may shoot you", unless that person really means it?
- paisawalla 5y ago
  The signs are clearly intended for would-be criminals, that is the well understood meaning of a phrase like "we don't call 911" or "this house protected by Smith and Wesson". Nobody who lives next to such a house thinks these signs describe them or are meant for them at all, because they aren't criminals. The "I may shoot you" interpretation never occurs to them, because they don't think "I may rob this house" either. You make a fundamental mistake by thinking that the sign has any effect on how much I trust my neighbors. Unless it's a NAMBLA flag, I am not going to let a bumper sticker or slogan override my personal experience of a person. Most people are like this.
  - adamredwoods 5y ago
    The problem is not specifically criminals, but how people react to others under stress, and how they view guns in their lives. Do they turn to guns quickly, or do they find peaceful solutions? The posted signs are one way to judge, and I really do hope most people are peaceful, even though they portray violence. My family's safety could depend on their true nature. An example of someone's recent true nature: >> A Washington man was arrested after officials said he shot and killed a neighbor for revving his engine too loudly. https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/state/washington/article252178588.html https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/state/washington/article...
    - ctdonath 5y ago
      Those familiar with guns know their place, and are (on the whole) actually much less likely to harm others without cause - precisely because they are familiar with the likely harm. One cherry-picked anecdote is insufficient. A million or so crimes, murders included, are deterred/stopped every year - most without firing a shot.
      - hytdstd 5y ago
        > A million or so crimes, murders included, are deterred/stopped every year - most without firing a shot. The data don't really suggest that this is the case. Compared to other western countries, America has the same rate of crime. The difference is, of course, that criminal activity is more likely to involve firearms and thus death.
  - hytdstd 5y ago
    >Unless it's a NAMBLA flag, I am not going to let a bumper sticker or slogan override my personal experience of a person. Most people are like this. If you have lots of personal experiences with a person, that's great. But many people don't have real relationships with their neighbors. Bumper stickers and slogans absolutely will impact such relations, they make first impressions. I certainly wouldn't trust almost-strangers with tons of flat-earth stuff to tutor my kids, would you?
    - paisawalla 5y ago
      In my experience, conservative and moderate-leaning people do not require a priori confirmation of ideological alignment with a person before they try to know them. Especially if they live next door. In conservative places, where you would expect to find more armed households, you would also see more neighborly relationship in my experience.
      - hytdstd 5y ago
        That's fantastic. Does this sense of community continue to apply when a black family moves in?
        paisawalla 5y ago
        The derangement of liberals knows no end, I see. Just nakedly projecting his own internal reality without a hint of self-awareness. Being brown myself, I promise you that your cherished pet minorities are doing fine in the suburbs. None of us are looking to urban whites as a savior, and you don't need to involve us in your feud with rural whites. Many of the people who I know that are gun owners are black -- they're very neighborly as well!
        hytdstd 5y ago
        I'm glad your experiences have been good. But that doesn't make it true for the country as a whole. Here's a quote by Former speaker of the house Newt Gingrich: "It's more dangerous to be black in America[...] It's both more dangerous because of crime, which is the Chicago story. But it is more dangerous in that you're substantially more likely to end up in a situation where police don't respect you where you could easily get killed. I think sometimes for whites it's difficult to appreciate how real that is."
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  > Furthermore, I do not want my children playing with other families who have guns inside the household. I don't see it as safe. So we get to the crux of it. It's not the signs that prevent you from socializing with your community. On to the signs. "Posted, no trespassing" is an indication that bad things may happen if you jump a fence. Maybe all it is is getting arrested and charges pressed. Do signs like that make you feel unsafe? Signs like that are intended to deter the wrong kind of people, that is, those who would harm you. They have the added side effect of bringing together like minded people, and deterring socialization from people with a problem with it.
  - travisporter 5y ago
    The elephant in the room is race.
    - HideousKojima 5y ago
      I'm just as ready and willing to shoot the white meth-head around the block if he breaks in as I am a black crack-head who breaks in.
  - lmm 5y ago
    > On to the signs. "Posted, no trespassing" is an indication that bad things may happen if you jump a fence. Maybe all it is is getting arrested and charges pressed. Do signs like that make you feel unsafe? No. Those suggest a normal, decent, measured response, rather than a spirit of escalation. A sign like "talk shit, get hit" would worry me though.
- ctdonath 5y ago
  Because the neighbors know that violence will only be directed against those causing harm in the neighborhood, restoring peace should criminal activity cross a line, and deterring criminal activity by assuring perpetrators will not benefit from their vile actions. I know other families who have guns are willing & able to protect my children. They've thought about such situations, and have means to protect the innocent.

adamredwoods 5y ago

How do those signs introduce trust by advertising violence? Furthermore, I do not want my children playing with other families who have guns inside the household. I don't see it as safe. Why hang a sign that insinuates "I may shoot you", unless that person really means it?

paisawalla 5y ago
The signs are clearly intended for would-be criminals, that is the well understood meaning of a phrase like "we don't call 911" or "this house protected by Smith and Wesson". Nobody who lives next to such a house thinks these signs describe them or are meant for them at all, because they aren't criminals. The "I may shoot you" interpretation never occurs to them, because they don't think "I may rob this house" either. You make a fundamental mistake by thinking that the sign has any effect on how much I trust my neighbors. Unless it's a NAMBLA flag, I am not going to let a bumper sticker or slogan override my personal experience of a person. Most people are like this.
- adamredwoods 5y ago
  The problem is not specifically criminals, but how people react to others under stress, and how they view guns in their lives. Do they turn to guns quickly, or do they find peaceful solutions? The posted signs are one way to judge, and I really do hope most people are peaceful, even though they portray violence. My family's safety could depend on their true nature. An example of someone's recent true nature: >> A Washington man was arrested after officials said he shot and killed a neighbor for revving his engine too loudly. https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/state/washington/article252178588.html https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/state/washington/article...
  - ctdonath 5y ago
    Those familiar with guns know their place, and are (on the whole) actually much less likely to harm others without cause - precisely because they are familiar with the likely harm. One cherry-picked anecdote is insufficient. A million or so crimes, murders included, are deterred/stopped every year - most without firing a shot.
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      > A million or so crimes, murders included, are deterred/stopped every year - most without firing a shot. The data don't really suggest that this is the case. Compared to other western countries, America has the same rate of crime. The difference is, of course, that criminal activity is more likely to involve firearms and thus death.
- hytdstd 5y ago
  >Unless it's a NAMBLA flag, I am not going to let a bumper sticker or slogan override my personal experience of a person. Most people are like this. If you have lots of personal experiences with a person, that's great. But many people don't have real relationships with their neighbors. Bumper stickers and slogans absolutely will impact such relations, they make first impressions. I certainly wouldn't trust almost-strangers with tons of flat-earth stuff to tutor my kids, would you?
  - paisawalla 5y ago
    In my experience, conservative and moderate-leaning people do not require a priori confirmation of ideological alignment with a person before they try to know them. Especially if they live next door. In conservative places, where you would expect to find more armed households, you would also see more neighborly relationship in my experience.
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      That's fantastic. Does this sense of community continue to apply when a black family moves in?
      - paisawalla 5y ago
        The derangement of liberals knows no end, I see. Just nakedly projecting his own internal reality without a hint of self-awareness. Being brown myself, I promise you that your cherished pet minorities are doing fine in the suburbs. None of us are looking to urban whites as a savior, and you don't need to involve us in your feud with rural whites. Many of the people who I know that are gun owners are black -- they're very neighborly as well!
        hytdstd 5y ago
        I'm glad your experiences have been good. But that doesn't make it true for the country as a whole. Here's a quote by Former speaker of the house Newt Gingrich: "It's more dangerous to be black in America[...] It's both more dangerous because of crime, which is the Chicago story. But it is more dangerous in that you're substantially more likely to end up in a situation where police don't respect you where you could easily get killed. I think sometimes for whites it's difficult to appreciate how real that is."
betwixthewires 5y ago
> Furthermore, I do not want my children playing with other families who have guns inside the household. I don't see it as safe. So we get to the crux of it. It's not the signs that prevent you from socializing with your community. On to the signs. "Posted, no trespassing" is an indication that bad things may happen if you jump a fence. Maybe all it is is getting arrested and charges pressed. Do signs like that make you feel unsafe? Signs like that are intended to deter the wrong kind of people, that is, those who would harm you. They have the added side effect of bringing together like minded people, and deterring socialization from people with a problem with it.
- travisporter 5y ago
  The elephant in the room is race.
  - HideousKojima 5y ago
    I'm just as ready and willing to shoot the white meth-head around the block if he breaks in as I am a black crack-head who breaks in.
- lmm 5y ago
  > On to the signs. "Posted, no trespassing" is an indication that bad things may happen if you jump a fence. Maybe all it is is getting arrested and charges pressed. Do signs like that make you feel unsafe? No. Those suggest a normal, decent, measured response, rather than a spirit of escalation. A sign like "talk shit, get hit" would worry me though.
ctdonath 5y ago
Because the neighbors know that violence will only be directed against those causing harm in the neighborhood, restoring peace should criminal activity cross a line, and deterring criminal activity by assuring perpetrators will not benefit from their vile actions. I know other families who have guns are willing & able to protect my children. They've thought about such situations, and have means to protect the innocent.