4 ms·

The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.

by zepto 5y ago

slg 5y ago
Did you click through to the link in my first comment? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) There are 2 indexes each for economic and press freedom. Our rankings on the economic freedom lists are 5th and 20th. On the press freedom ranks we are 44th, and 37th.
- zepto 5y ago
  You seem to be looking at the the rank order alone, which just means there are a lot of closely bunched countries near the US on the indices. If you look at the heat maps and the actual indices themselves, along with the countries with comparable numbers, you’ll see that those lists precisely support my claim. Thanks for providing this corroborating data.
  - slg 5y ago
    You are simply factually wrong in your description of this data. 3 of the 4 indexes I listed provide defined tiers. The US is in the top tier on only 1 of the 3 lists. On that one list there are 60 counties in the top tier. On the other two lists we are in the 2nd tier defined as "satisfactory situation" and "mostly free". The organizations behind the lists clearly think there is room for improvement. This data does not corroborate your point.
    - zepto 5y ago
      I am not factually wrong. Here is what I said: “The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.” Whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers. When you consider how large and diverse the US is compared to most countries on the list, the ranking becomes more impressive. The first list puts the US above all of Europe except Switzerland, and above all of Scandinavia, and Canada and Australia. The second list puts the US above Sweden, Germany, and Japan for example. The third, doesn’t have ranks, but places US in the ‘satisfactory’ category along with most of Europe, Canada, and Australia. The fourth, is the only one in which the US does a little worse on their points scale, however *it is back in the top tier described as ‘free’ alongside all its peers, and above the UK, France and Japan in the ranking. It’s just bullshit to claim these lists indicate that the US is lacking compared to peers.
      - slg 5y ago
        I started writing out a longer response to you, but then realized it isn't worth it. If you aren't going to acknowledge that we maybe have room for improvement when we are internationally ranked in the 30s and 40s in press freedom then I don't see much value in continuing the conversation on how our freedom might be lacking.
        zepto 5y ago
        > If you aren't going to acknowledge that we maybe have room for improvement This is a completely dishonest representation of what I have said. Here it is again: > The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations. Whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers. Nowhere did I say there wasn’t room for improvement or even claim the US was at the top. If you’re going to lie about both what I said, and what the links show, what do you think we can accomplish?
- cman1444 5y ago
  These lists seem to show that the US is pretty much on par with the rest of the western world. I'm not sure how you could look at these and say that the US is behind it's peers very much, especially on the economic freedom measures. Only the second press freedom list seems to have the US at the low end compared to other western countries, but it's still above the UK, South Korea and a few others.
  - slg 5y ago
    Here is what I said initially: >We are usually behind Canada, New Zealand, the Scandinavian countries, and a few other European countries depending on the specific criteria being evaluated. The countries we are behind on all 4 lists and therefore unanimously behind: - New Zealand - Switzerland The countries we are behind on 3 of the 4 lists and therefore countries we are "usually behind": - Canada - Australia - Ireland - Denmark - Finland - Netherlands The countries we are behind on 2 of the 4 lists and therefore countries we are on par with: - Germany - Norway - Sweden - Iceland - Belgium - Austria - Portugal - Czech Republic - Lithuania - Slovenia - Andorra - Liechtenstein - Luxembourg - Estonia - Cyprus - Jamaica - Costa Rica So that is a yes on "Canada, New Zealand... and a few other European countries". I don't know why you and the other poster are pretending that naming countries that we are ranked higher than disproves this statement. The only thing that isn't backed up by those rankings is that I said "the Scandinavian countries" when it is only Denmark and Finland ahead of us while we are on par with Norway, Sweden, and Iceland.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - zepto 5y ago
      You also said this: > And the fact that the US is lacking in those two latter categories compared to many of our peer nations Which is still bullshit. As I said before, whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers.

The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.

by zepto 5y ago

The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.

slg 5y ago

Did you click through to the link in my first comment? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_Press_(report) There are 2 indexes each for economic and press freedom. Our rankings on the economic freedom lists are 5th and 20th. On the press freedom ranks we are 44th, and 37th.

zepto 5y ago
You seem to be looking at the the rank order alone, which just means there are a lot of closely bunched countries near the US on the indices. If you look at the heat maps and the actual indices themselves, along with the countries with comparable numbers, you’ll see that those lists precisely support my claim. Thanks for providing this corroborating data.
- slg 5y ago
  You are simply factually wrong in your description of this data. 3 of the 4 indexes I listed provide defined tiers. The US is in the top tier on only 1 of the 3 lists. On that one list there are 60 counties in the top tier. On the other two lists we are in the 2nd tier defined as "satisfactory situation" and "mostly free". The organizations behind the lists clearly think there is room for improvement. This data does not corroborate your point.
  - zepto 5y ago
    I am not factually wrong. Here is what I said: “The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations.” Whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers. When you consider how large and diverse the US is compared to most countries on the list, the ranking becomes more impressive. The first list puts the US above all of Europe except Switzerland, and above all of Scandinavia, and Canada and Australia. The second list puts the US above Sweden, Germany, and Japan for example. The third, doesn’t have ranks, but places US in the ‘satisfactory’ category along with most of Europe, Canada, and Australia. The fourth, is the only one in which the US does a little worse on their points scale, however *it is back in the top tier described as ‘free’ alongside all its peers, and above the UK, France and Japan in the ranking. It’s just bullshit to claim these lists indicate that the US is lacking compared to peers.
    - slg 5y ago
      I started writing out a longer response to you, but then realized it isn't worth it. If you aren't going to acknowledge that we maybe have room for improvement when we are internationally ranked in the 30s and 40s in press freedom then I don't see much value in continuing the conversation on how our freedom might be lacking.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > If you aren't going to acknowledge that we maybe have room for improvement This is a completely dishonest representation of what I have said. Here it is again: > The US is not lacking in either press or economic freedom compared to ‘peer’ nations. Whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers. Nowhere did I say there wasn’t room for improvement or even claim the US was at the top. If you’re going to lie about both what I said, and what the links show, what do you think we can accomplish?
cman1444 5y ago
These lists seem to show that the US is pretty much on par with the rest of the western world. I'm not sure how you could look at these and say that the US is behind it's peers very much, especially on the economic freedom measures. Only the second press freedom list seems to have the US at the low end compared to other western countries, but it's still above the UK, South Korea and a few others.
- slg 5y ago
  Here is what I said initially: >We are usually behind Canada, New Zealand, the Scandinavian countries, and a few other European countries depending on the specific criteria being evaluated. The countries we are behind on all 4 lists and therefore unanimously behind: - New Zealand - Switzerland The countries we are behind on 3 of the 4 lists and therefore countries we are "usually behind": - Canada - Australia - Ireland - Denmark - Finland - Netherlands The countries we are behind on 2 of the 4 lists and therefore countries we are on par with: - Germany - Norway - Sweden - Iceland - Belgium - Austria - Portugal - Czech Republic - Lithuania - Slovenia - Andorra - Liechtenstein - Luxembourg - Estonia - Cyprus - Jamaica - Costa Rica So that is a yes on "Canada, New Zealand... and a few other European countries". I don't know why you and the other poster are pretending that naming countries that we are ranked higher than disproves this statement. The only thing that isn't backed up by those rankings is that I said "the Scandinavian countries" when it is only Denmark and Finland ahead of us while we are on par with Norway, Sweden, and Iceland.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - zepto 5y ago
    You also said this: > And the fact that the US is lacking in those two latter categories compared to many of our peer nations Which is still bullshit. As I said before, whether or not there are countries who have better ratings, any honest reading of the list sees that the US ratings are similar to peers.