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> the tragedy isn't the gun, but the necessity for one, and it's a tragedy inherent in our mortal existence. Well, they're sure not necessary here in Australia

> the tragedy isn't the gun, but the necessity for one, and it's a tragedy inherent in our mortal existence. Well, they're sure not necessary here in Australia. I don't think I've ever met someone who owns one, certainly no-one has ever mentioned owning a gun to me. It's just not a thing. Seems to be just "a tragedy inherent" in the USA. I was watching every day, and supporting, the George Floyd protests, and after a while those in Seattle and Portland.. until Raz got machine guns from his car and starting handing them out. WTF?! That was the plan?! I switched off, disgusted. That suddenly all seemed insane. Like it does hearing people from the US on HN talking about guns. It just sounds crazy. I read on HN someone from the US saying Australians wouldn't be under lockdown if only we had guns etc. It just sounds insane, disturbing even reading that. What am I gonna do with a gun?! But maybe, when everyone else has a gun, you feel you need for one too. Just know that it's not like that in every country. Although if my country had spent most of the last 120 years invading other countries, subverting their politics, stealing their wealth, like the US has, I'd have urges to defend myself from it with a gun, too, maybe, I don't know. It's weird though. US violence has been focused outwards, on other countries, yet to hear people from the US, they never heard about that, don't feel involved or responsible, yet are obsessed with the possibility of US government violence happening to them one day. I don't claim to understand the situation, just I'm very glad not to live in a country where everyone has a gun. OK, now I will stop reading gun stories/comments on HN. Good luck!

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nverno 5y ago
This reminds me of my first year of high school in Australia. I had come from the USA and everyone wanted to hear my war stories about people shooting each other (and for me to say 'Watermelon' over and over). It completely blew my mind how misinformed Aussies (granted we were young) were about life in America. It's a huge country, you gotta keep in mind the news and action movies sensationalize and glorify isolated violent events.
- megablast 5y ago
  Everybody is hugely misinformed about every country, especially kids.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Jedd 5y ago
  I'm not sure when that was, but in a contemporary setting, the line of questioning (and fascination about what's been normalised) would be highly reasonable. Consider the frighteningly lengthy list of school shootings in the USA. [0] I note that Wikipedia does not have an entry for school shootings in, say, Australia. Or in fact most other places. I'm seeing a figure of ~ 1300 school shootings in the USA since 1970, so it doesn't appear to be an entirely modern problem. In the USA (contemporary, again, sorry I'm not sure what era your experiences are from) there's ~30-40 (children-aged) victims of gun-related violence a day, with ~8 of those resulting in death. [1] From outside that society, how people put up with this, living with regular active shooter drills, managing the additional anxiety, etc, is definitely going to be of interest. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th... [1] https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/gun-violence/16-facts-about-gun-violence-and-school-shootings/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/gun-violence/16-facts-about...
  - leetcrew 5y ago
    the US does seem to have a rather unique problem with school shootings. it's certainly worth investigating why this is the case and considering countermeasures. at the same time, and I know this is a cold thing to say, the issue really gets blown out of proportion for political reasons. it's about as likely for a US student to get killed in a school shooting as it is for you to get hit by a bolt of lightning. > From outside that society, how people put up with this, living with regular active shooter drills, managing the additional anxiety, etc, is definitely going to be of interest. I was in grade school not that long ago, and quite frankly, there wasn't much to "put up with". we did active shooter drills as or less frequently than fire drills (not often). I don't remember ever feeling anxiety about being shot at school, and I am a lot more anxious than the average person.
spacephysics 5y ago
I think Australia is a great example of what happens when guns are given up. You have a government that’s going on witch hunts for covid cases and exerting extreme authoritarian pressure for remarkably low covid rates. Some would say it’s them testing the limits of their populace. What are they gonna do? Protest? That’s illegal when in lockdown.
- megablast 5y ago
  No you don’t. You do have one of the lowest Covid death rates in the world. You have a lot of states with complete freedom.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
    ...except if you want to leave, lol. UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 13 Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
  - abduhl 5y ago
    Your response to the accusation that a government is being authoritarian is that it’s OK because there’s “a lot” of places with “complete” freedom? That’s bordering on “this is good for Bitcoin” levels of Stockholm syndrome.
- stef25 5y ago
  So you're saying that covid measures wouldn't exist if there were more guns, and that would be a good thing? Maybe the remarkable low covid rates are there because of the authoritarian pressure? Authoritarian is never a good word but if people simply won't listen when it comes to matters of public health (that affect everyone - an overflowing ICU is never a good thing) and thus endanger the health of others then they have to live with the consequences. It's not a matter of politic, opinion or ideology. The suggestion that this should be responded to with guns is just the most perfect own goal.
- mbrodersen 5y ago
  The majority of Australians grumble about it but agree with the lockdown restrictions. Looking at the insane number of people dying from COVID in the US compared with Australia I understand why.
Frondo 5y ago
> Like it does hearing people from the US on HN talking about guns. It just sounds crazy. I read on HN someone from the US saying Australians wouldn't be under lockdown if only we had guns etc. It just sounds insane, disturbing even reading that. What am I gonna do with a gun?! As an American, the gun discourse especially on tech forums like HN sounds insane to me too.
chmod600 5y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_o... You might want to consider some counterfactuals where the US kept more to itself.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nverno 5y ago

This reminds me of my first year of high school in Australia. I had come from the USA and everyone wanted to hear my war stories about people shooting each other (and for me to say 'Watermelon' over and over). It completely blew my mind how misinformed Aussies (granted we were young) were about life in America. It's a huge country, you gotta keep in mind the news and action movies sensationalize and glorify isolated violent events.

megablast 5y ago
Everybody is hugely misinformed about every country, especially kids.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Jedd 5y ago
I'm not sure when that was, but in a contemporary setting, the line of questioning (and fascination about what's been normalised) would be highly reasonable. Consider the frighteningly lengthy list of school shootings in the USA. [0] I note that Wikipedia does not have an entry for school shootings in, say, Australia. Or in fact most other places. I'm seeing a figure of ~ 1300 school shootings in the USA since 1970, so it doesn't appear to be an entirely modern problem. In the USA (contemporary, again, sorry I'm not sure what era your experiences are from) there's ~30-40 (children-aged) victims of gun-related violence a day, with ~8 of those resulting in death. [1] From outside that society, how people put up with this, living with regular active shooter drills, managing the additional anxiety, etc, is definitely going to be of interest. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th... [1] https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/gun-violence/16-facts-about-gun-violence-and-school-shootings/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/gun-violence/16-facts-about...
- leetcrew 5y ago
  the US does seem to have a rather unique problem with school shootings. it's certainly worth investigating why this is the case and considering countermeasures. at the same time, and I know this is a cold thing to say, the issue really gets blown out of proportion for political reasons. it's about as likely for a US student to get killed in a school shooting as it is for you to get hit by a bolt of lightning. > From outside that society, how people put up with this, living with regular active shooter drills, managing the additional anxiety, etc, is definitely going to be of interest. I was in grade school not that long ago, and quite frankly, there wasn't much to "put up with". we did active shooter drills as or less frequently than fire drills (not often). I don't remember ever feeling anxiety about being shot at school, and I am a lot more anxious than the average person.

spacephysics 5y ago

I think Australia is a great example of what happens when guns are given up. You have a government that’s going on witch hunts for covid cases and exerting extreme authoritarian pressure for remarkably low covid rates. Some would say it’s them testing the limits of their populace. What are they gonna do? Protest? That’s illegal when in lockdown.

megablast 5y ago
No you don’t. You do have one of the lowest Covid death rates in the world. You have a lot of states with complete freedom.
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  ...except if you want to leave, lol. UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights: Article 13 Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
- abduhl 5y ago
  Your response to the accusation that a government is being authoritarian is that it’s OK because there’s “a lot” of places with “complete” freedom? That’s bordering on “this is good for Bitcoin” levels of Stockholm syndrome.
stef25 5y ago
So you're saying that covid measures wouldn't exist if there were more guns, and that would be a good thing? Maybe the remarkable low covid rates are there because of the authoritarian pressure? Authoritarian is never a good word but if people simply won't listen when it comes to matters of public health (that affect everyone - an overflowing ICU is never a good thing) and thus endanger the health of others then they have to live with the consequences. It's not a matter of politic, opinion or ideology. The suggestion that this should be responded to with guns is just the most perfect own goal.
mbrodersen 5y ago
The majority of Australians grumble about it but agree with the lockdown restrictions. Looking at the insane number of people dying from COVID in the US compared with Australia I understand why.

Frondo 5y ago

> Like it does hearing people from the US on HN talking about guns. It just sounds crazy. I read on HN someone from the US saying Australians wouldn't be under lockdown if only we had guns etc. It just sounds insane, disturbing even reading that. What am I gonna do with a gun?! As an American, the gun discourse especially on tech forums like HN sounds insane to me too.

chmod600 5y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_o... You might want to consider some counterfactuals where the US kept more to itself.