4 ms·

What fundamental problem do you have with cops using tech to catch criminals? Not talking about the abuse of innocents here, or warrantless intrusions into you

What fundamental problem do you have with cops using tech to catch criminals? Not talking about the abuse of innocents here, or warrantless intrusions into your data, just the core of what you're saying.

MereInterest 5y ago
I'll bite. The problem is asymmetry of information, and that the protections haven't advanced alongside the ease of collecting information. For example, imaging you have a suspect and want to trail them. The courts have established that you have no expectation of privacy when in a public area, so an officer can trail your car and watch where you go. You only have so many officers, and so there are implicit limits on how many people you can trail in person. But if instead of sending an officer to trail a suspect, you attach a GPS tracker to the suspect's car, suddenly that restriction is removed. Instead of spending weeks trailing a single suspect, you could attach dozens of trackers to dozens of cars, or you could request location data from a third party. The lower cost of breaking somebody's privacy allows it to be done more frequently, even if the explicit legal protections haven't changed. The problem isn't the technology itself, but that protections of privacy and protections against unreasonable searches haven't advanced alongside the technology.
- lavabiopsy 5y ago
  How is there asymmetry of information? AFAIK there have been just as many tech advances in police accountability as well, such as the prevalence of body cams, or the ability to see these warrants as they are issued in real time on a police web site, etc. Of course there are other issues at play but I think you may have missed some things that are on the other side, it's very feasible for one person to track many police officers much in the same way that you describe. What would be questionable is if the police were trying to stop the public from doing so.
- lr4444lr 5y ago
  I am pretty sure thr police cannot put a GPS tracker on your car without a warrant.
  - 0des 5y ago
    You'd be wrong in the USA. Anybody who parks in any public space or outdoors can have a unit placed on their vehicle by anybody.
    - lr4444lr 5y ago
      Legally?
      - adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
        It doesn't matter. If they do it illegally, you won't find out unless you find it on your car.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      It's still illegal. I could go around keying people's car for potentially a lifetime without getting caught but it's still illegal and that's what we were talking about in the thread.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    And now they don’t have to because you carry your own gps tracker with you and Google will sing easily.
    - Gigablah 5y ago
      Your telco is way more eager to sell your information.
  - MereInterest 5y ago
    Whether or not there is a warrant is tangential to my argument. There used to be hard physical limits to the amount of surveillance that could be done. Now, the only limits are legal limits. Those legal limits were never designed to be the only limit, and are insufficient in their current form.
  - red_hobbit 5y ago
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Get the cops to high crime areas. There is no need for the amount of law enforcement I have in my county of Marin. They would then have more time to put GPS's on vechicles, and less time for Revenue Collection.
slownews45 5y ago
I personally don't. I suspect plenty of folks agree with me. My point is, the HN outrage at things like tech to solve crimes (because of privacy etc issues) is in many cases not shared more broadly.
- stjohnswarts 5y ago
  I agree with your claim. I still think the Apple security boondoggle got the right treatment, and I hope they've backed off forever, but I have my doubts.
dpweb 5y ago
The use of technology is irrelevant. The question is one of unreasonable search and seizure, unsupported by probable cause. "Law enforcement" is always used as a reason to invade privacy. Searching smartphones wasn't envisioned by the founding fathers but is exactly what they were talking about when it was written into the constitution.

MereInterest 5y ago

I'll bite. The problem is asymmetry of information, and that the protections haven't advanced alongside the ease of collecting information. For example, imaging you have a suspect and want to trail them. The courts have established that you have no expectation of privacy when in a public area, so an officer can trail your car and watch where you go. You only have so many officers, and so there are implicit limits on how many people you can trail in person. But if instead of sending an officer to trail a suspect, you attach a GPS tracker to the suspect's car, suddenly that restriction is removed. Instead of spending weeks trailing a single suspect, you could attach dozens of trackers to dozens of cars, or you could request location data from a third party. The lower cost of breaking somebody's privacy allows it to be done more frequently, even if the explicit legal protections haven't changed. The problem isn't the technology itself, but that protections of privacy and protections against unreasonable searches haven't advanced alongside the technology.

lavabiopsy 5y ago
How is there asymmetry of information? AFAIK there have been just as many tech advances in police accountability as well, such as the prevalence of body cams, or the ability to see these warrants as they are issued in real time on a police web site, etc. Of course there are other issues at play but I think you may have missed some things that are on the other side, it's very feasible for one person to track many police officers much in the same way that you describe. What would be questionable is if the police were trying to stop the public from doing so.
lr4444lr 5y ago
I am pretty sure thr police cannot put a GPS tracker on your car without a warrant.
- 0des 5y ago
  You'd be wrong in the USA. Anybody who parks in any public space or outdoors can have a unit placed on their vehicle by anybody.
  - lr4444lr 5y ago
    Legally?
    - adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
      It doesn't matter. If they do it illegally, you won't find out unless you find it on your car.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    It's still illegal. I could go around keying people's car for potentially a lifetime without getting caught but it's still illegal and that's what we were talking about in the thread.
- bombcar 5y ago
  And now they don’t have to because you carry your own gps tracker with you and Google will sing easily.
  - Gigablah 5y ago
    Your telco is way more eager to sell your information.
- MereInterest 5y ago
  Whether or not there is a warrant is tangential to my argument. There used to be hard physical limits to the amount of surveillance that could be done. Now, the only limits are legal limits. Those legal limits were never designed to be the only limit, and are insufficient in their current form.
- red_hobbit 5y ago
hellbannedguy 5y ago
Get the cops to high crime areas. There is no need for the amount of law enforcement I have in my county of Marin. They would then have more time to put GPS's on vechicles, and less time for Revenue Collection.

slownews45 5y ago

I personally don't. I suspect plenty of folks agree with me. My point is, the HN outrage at things like tech to solve crimes (because of privacy etc issues) is in many cases not shared more broadly.

stjohnswarts 5y ago
I agree with your claim. I still think the Apple security boondoggle got the right treatment, and I hope they've backed off forever, but I have my doubts.

dpweb 5y ago

The use of technology is irrelevant. The question is one of unreasonable search and seizure, unsupported by probable cause. "Law enforcement" is always used as a reason to invade privacy. Searching smartphones wasn't envisioned by the founding fathers but is exactly what they were talking about when it was written into the constitution.