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> It hands an implicit veto on opinion to the violent. Utterly shameful. Except that isn’t how it has worked in the US at all. Can weapons be used to intimidat

> It hands an implicit veto on opinion to the violent. Utterly shameful. Except that isn’t how it has worked in the US at all. Can weapons be used to intimidate and coerce? Of course. But we’re civilized. We have freedoms and we are protected from unlawful force by lawful force. Speech is virtual limitless. Non violent protest has and will continue to be a fruitful avenue of change. Self reliance and individual empowerment are the core values of the United States. I can’t think of many things more important than being able to protect my family and my property.

simonh 5y ago
My comment is not limited to political discourse. The rates of firearm use in domestic and personal disputes in the US are a disgrace. Half of women killed in domestic disputes are shot. But even then, it only shows those cases where guns were actually used. We can only guess how often the threat of such violence, either explicit or implicit is enough to coerce or intimidate. The attitude that the correct way to fix this is for women to also become killers is frankly vile. Promoting willingness to kill as a path to a voice or Liberty in personal relationships or society is utterly immoral. That is not the kind of society we should be aspiring to build.
- bequanna 5y ago
  > Promoting willingness to kill as a path to a voice or Liberty in personal relationships or society is utterly immoral. That is not the kind of society we should be aspiring to build. Statements like this remind me how lucky we are to have created such a safe space for people to be born, raised, and live so that they can maintain this view. You’re lucky and hopefully people like you can help us build a better society. Some of us weren’t so lucky. We experienced violence, we went to war, we have actually seen the chaos and terror that people can cause. I am here to tell you that terrible, malevolent people exist. They don’t care about hurting other people. Now, you don’t need to spend every waking hour worrying about them, but don’t pretend that they aren’t there and a real danger to you either. So, please stop trying to take away the right of an individual to protect themselves because of some hand waving about criminals with guns.
  - simonh 5y ago
    This is why we have armies and police forces.
wittycardio 5y ago
I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. The real question is why you think they are when we live in the safest time in human history.
- Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
  I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. "I have also failed to read or retain even a bit of 20th Century history."
  - wittycardio 5y ago
    Yes I'm sure the 20th century would have been much more peaceful with guns in everyone's hand. You sir have solved all political problems , just give everyone guns !
- bequanna 5y ago
  That’s great! This whole civilization thing is working pretty well. Just because you haven’t personally encountered violence, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
  - wittycardio 5y ago
    Yes exactly I'm trying to continue living in a world without violence, the way to do that is to reduce easy access to guns.

simonh 5y ago

My comment is not limited to political discourse. The rates of firearm use in domestic and personal disputes in the US are a disgrace. Half of women killed in domestic disputes are shot. But even then, it only shows those cases where guns were actually used. We can only guess how often the threat of such violence, either explicit or implicit is enough to coerce or intimidate. The attitude that the correct way to fix this is for women to also become killers is frankly vile. Promoting willingness to kill as a path to a voice or Liberty in personal relationships or society is utterly immoral. That is not the kind of society we should be aspiring to build.

bequanna 5y ago
> Promoting willingness to kill as a path to a voice or Liberty in personal relationships or society is utterly immoral. That is not the kind of society we should be aspiring to build. Statements like this remind me how lucky we are to have created such a safe space for people to be born, raised, and live so that they can maintain this view. You’re lucky and hopefully people like you can help us build a better society. Some of us weren’t so lucky. We experienced violence, we went to war, we have actually seen the chaos and terror that people can cause. I am here to tell you that terrible, malevolent people exist. They don’t care about hurting other people. Now, you don’t need to spend every waking hour worrying about them, but don’t pretend that they aren’t there and a real danger to you either. So, please stop trying to take away the right of an individual to protect themselves because of some hand waving about criminals with guns.
- simonh 5y ago
  This is why we have armies and police forces.

wittycardio 5y ago

I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. The real question is why you think they are when we live in the safest time in human history.

Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
I have lived in developed and developing countries and have never felt that my family or property were at risk. "I have also failed to read or retain even a bit of 20th Century history."
- wittycardio 5y ago
  Yes I'm sure the 20th century would have been much more peaceful with guns in everyone's hand. You sir have solved all political problems , just give everyone guns !
bequanna 5y ago
That’s great! This whole civilization thing is working pretty well. Just because you haven’t personally encountered violence, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
- wittycardio 5y ago
  Yes exactly I'm trying to continue living in a world without violence, the way to do that is to reduce easy access to guns.