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That's exactly why so many companies are enacting "unlimited" policies. What they do is say "It's unlimited, but if you take more than 4 weeks it has to be app

That's exactly why so many companies are enacting "unlimited" policies. What they do is say "It's unlimited, but if you take more than 4 weeks it has to be approved" or something and then that way they can cap you like they did before but also not pay you out if you leave because wink wink it's "unlimited".

reginold 5y ago
Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO.
reginold 5y ago
Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO. These are all just the slow crawl of American businesses towards irrelevance.
- abofh 5y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your business isn't doing well.
canadaduane 5y ago
This reminds me of "unlimited" cell phone plans where you can use as much data as you like, but at some point the data gets slower and slower.
- toast0 5y ago
  Those plans are much better than plans that are strict cap and then no data, which are better than no limits but if you use more than your quota it costs a ton and by the way the usage information is delayed at least 7 days. I do remember seeing the plans that said unlimited (tiny print slow after 30Gb) and that's misleading... better to put the 30gb in big letters, but I just want like 1 or 2 gb fast... Just switched to a hard capped plan cause it was half the price though and a higher cap and I haven't hit the cap in a long time.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mcny 5y ago
  Skype iirc used to have an "unlimited" talk time capped at some ten thousand minutes as fair use. I am pretty sure even today if you have a phone call on Google voice that goes over two hours or so, your call will drop. I like it better this way because I can call back immediately after being disconnected.
- chris11 5y ago
  I'm ok with that. I'm still on an old data plan that throttles me after I got the limit for high speed data. But they don't hide that limit or my usage, and it's really cheap. I don't want to pay for unlimited data, and I don't want to lose data after hitting a cap.
  - InvertedRhodium 5y ago
    Everyone is ok with being sold something that they understand, most people are not ok with being sold something that screams "UNLIMITED" and then uses fine print to limit your seemingly unlimited plan. Maybe the plans you're describing could spin the feature as "throttled for your pleasure" or some such. I'm sure there are marketing people that can come up with a positive way to spin it that isn't a borderline falsehood.
  - abofh 5y ago
    If I throttle your car to 5mph, is the distance it travels unlimited? Bandwidth is the same, if you set a speed limit, you are also setting a distance limit.
    - andreareina 5y ago
      Only if you're maxing out all the time. I had a plan with a similar sort of thing, even after using up all my "fast" data I had enough bandwidth for regular browsing and streaming music.
- antifa 5y ago
  The difference is that they are very reasonably up-front about "first X GB at 4G speeds" where the PTO thing is going to have a shrowd of mysteries and unwritten limits.
sneak 5y ago
Sounds like this is just a lawsuit away from not being a thing anymore. All the former employee would have to do is to illustrate that the 4 weeks was enshrined in policy somehow, then boom.
- tibbetts 5y ago
  Companies would just react by adjusting their HR rules to comply with the court decision. This sort of thing happens all the time.
sklargh 5y ago
Unless a union is involved, firms do not enact policies that make them less money. Unlimited PTO removes a liability. If there are specific policies that demarcate how an employee uses PTO to the degree specified in this blog post, I would argue that the firm does not have "unlimited PTO" and in fact accrues a vacation balance. Awaiting the class action in CA.
- mech4bg 5y ago
  As just one example, a few years ago our company changed parental leave to 4 months from 6 weeks. Is that making them the same or more money? I think companies do things like Unlimited PTO because although it may mean some people take more leave than before, other people take the same or less and there's no liability, so it may net out roughly the same but sounds better to new hires. I don't think every company is extremely cynical as you're suggesting. As others here have mentioned, it depends where you work - we don't bat an eyelid if people are using 4-6 weeks plus holidays, in fact we check to make sure people are actually using their PTO.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    Can you name this company? They sound like good people.
charwalker 5y ago
Some states don't require the payout and companies there will not unless posted like in the employee manual. Some stats do and that is where this could be ducking worker rights.

reginold 5y ago

Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO.

reginold 5y ago

Yep as a business owner it's a great way to get out of paying PTO. These are all just the slow crawl of American businesses towards irrelevance.

abofh 5y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that your business isn't doing well.

canadaduane 5y ago

This reminds me of "unlimited" cell phone plans where you can use as much data as you like, but at some point the data gets slower and slower.

toast0 5y ago
Those plans are much better than plans that are strict cap and then no data, which are better than no limits but if you use more than your quota it costs a ton and by the way the usage information is delayed at least 7 days. I do remember seeing the plans that said unlimited (tiny print slow after 30Gb) and that's misleading... better to put the 30gb in big letters, but I just want like 1 or 2 gb fast... Just switched to a hard capped plan cause it was half the price though and a higher cap and I haven't hit the cap in a long time.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mcny 5y ago
Skype iirc used to have an "unlimited" talk time capped at some ten thousand minutes as fair use. I am pretty sure even today if you have a phone call on Google voice that goes over two hours or so, your call will drop. I like it better this way because I can call back immediately after being disconnected.
chris11 5y ago
I'm ok with that. I'm still on an old data plan that throttles me after I got the limit for high speed data. But they don't hide that limit or my usage, and it's really cheap. I don't want to pay for unlimited data, and I don't want to lose data after hitting a cap.
- InvertedRhodium 5y ago
  Everyone is ok with being sold something that they understand, most people are not ok with being sold something that screams "UNLIMITED" and then uses fine print to limit your seemingly unlimited plan. Maybe the plans you're describing could spin the feature as "throttled for your pleasure" or some such. I'm sure there are marketing people that can come up with a positive way to spin it that isn't a borderline falsehood.
- abofh 5y ago
  If I throttle your car to 5mph, is the distance it travels unlimited? Bandwidth is the same, if you set a speed limit, you are also setting a distance limit.
  - andreareina 5y ago
    Only if you're maxing out all the time. I had a plan with a similar sort of thing, even after using up all my "fast" data I had enough bandwidth for regular browsing and streaming music.
antifa 5y ago
The difference is that they are very reasonably up-front about "first X GB at 4G speeds" where the PTO thing is going to have a shrowd of mysteries and unwritten limits.

sneak 5y ago

Sounds like this is just a lawsuit away from not being a thing anymore. All the former employee would have to do is to illustrate that the 4 weeks was enshrined in policy somehow, then boom.

tibbetts 5y ago
Companies would just react by adjusting their HR rules to comply with the court decision. This sort of thing happens all the time.

sklargh 5y ago

Unless a union is involved, firms do not enact policies that make them less money. Unlimited PTO removes a liability. If there are specific policies that demarcate how an employee uses PTO to the degree specified in this blog post, I would argue that the firm does not have "unlimited PTO" and in fact accrues a vacation balance. Awaiting the class action in CA.

mech4bg 5y ago
As just one example, a few years ago our company changed parental leave to 4 months from 6 weeks. Is that making them the same or more money? I think companies do things like Unlimited PTO because although it may mean some people take more leave than before, other people take the same or less and there's no liability, so it may net out roughly the same but sounds better to new hires. I don't think every company is extremely cynical as you're suggesting. As others here have mentioned, it depends where you work - we don't bat an eyelid if people are using 4-6 weeks plus holidays, in fact we check to make sure people are actually using their PTO.
- lostlogin 5y ago
  Can you name this company? They sound like good people.

charwalker 5y ago

Some states don't require the payout and companies there will not unless posted like in the employee manual. Some stats do and that is where this could be ducking worker rights.