4 ms·

Given the availability of tech like the Pi now, I wonder what it would take to build a modern, child-friendly device in the same spirit around it: something tha

Given the availability of tech like the Pi now, I wonder what it would take to build a modern, child-friendly device in the same spirit around it: something that offered a fun and instructive introduction to programming, in a box that was self-contained, safe and practically indestructible. Design a case with a sealed keyboard? Expose standard power and display connectors with robust ports? Write some child-friendly software that might be flashier than what we had but was still in essence a guided programming environment with a simple but effective language? Maybe include some sort of USB connectivity, primarily so that older kids could also control external devices like light boards or robot arms or turtles? I haven’t come across anyone trying to do this that I can recall, but I feel like there’s an entire ecosystem’s worth of startup ideas in this space just waiting to be implemented. Maybe the next Sir Clive is out there somewhere to get it started.

jarvist 5y ago
The Raspberry Pi 400 is basically this. https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/
- zozbot234 5y ago
  It's a very interesting device in a very Spectrum-like form factor. It also has its limitations, much like the Spectrum itself - you're not going to code comfortably in resource-intensive languages with it.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Then don't! Bloat is the moat were stuck in. An unsustainable sin, a cognitive load, too heavy to comprehend, a house of cards, the opposite of smarts.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    That's a feature.
- Chris_Newton 5y ago
  The 400 isn’t quite what I had in mind. I was thinking more of a device usable even by the under-10 group, with a simpler and more robust physical design and, crucially, the kind of instant-on, guided programming environment the early home “PCs” had. With early Sinclair systems, each key on the keyboard would act like modern auto-complete: you would start typing and keywords would appear almost magically. On the BBC Micro, you powered on and heard the trademark beeeeep-beep and were instantly presented with a prompt where you could start typing a program or other commands. Everything in those systems was geared towards immediate responses and inviting you to start programming them straight away.
  - MrGilbert 5y ago
    I think I know what you are after - I wonder how much a TI-Nspire CX II-T could fill the gap, allowing for on-device python programming since 2020. OTH... Taking a RPI400, and build a stripped-down linux system which resembles Sinclair BASIC could prove to be a fun exercise. Edit: I just realized how expensive the ZX81 was here in Germany back in 1981 - it'd set you back 450€ by todays value.
dragonsky67 5y ago
TLDR - Kids who want to learn to program already have access to the tools to do this... It's just that most kids don't want to learn to program. Wasn't this what the One Laptop Per Child (OTLP) project was trying to achieve? The problem is that when the ZX, C64 etc were around there was no alternative. If you wanted to play games, you could either shell out for more hardware and purchase the games on disk or cartridge, or you could type them in from a magazine (several times) and hopefully save them to a cassette. These days, if you want to play a game, you reach for your phone and install a free one that is far more capable than anything you could develop yourself. The real trick would be to create a development environment that will run on a phone. Apple have gone somewhat down this path with their Swift Playgrounds and you could always work with Scratch and similar systems or you could even do something in html/javascript, but none of these really give the same imperative to learning how that the original home computers did. You really need a system that lets you develop a full program, share it with your friends and modify (and break) it. You know the reality is that we do have these systems, and kids that are interested in doing anything other than just playing games can access them with a minimum of problems. I wonder how many of those ZX Spectrums, C64 etc were given to kids, who on finding that they had to actually do some work to make them do anything useful relegated them to a shoebox under the TV. It is possible that for every positive story about "kid learns programming from ZX Spectrum" you would have a hundred stories of kid calling ZX Spectrum a piece of crap.
- nanis 5y ago
  > I wonder how many of those ZX Spectrums, C64 etc were given to kids, who on finding that they had to actually do some work to make them do anything useful relegated them to a shoebox under the TV. In my experience, that tended to happen more with the kids who got the C64s. Those were the ones with color TVs and Betamax at home, too.
  - antod 5y ago
    I had a Spectrum (couldn't afford a C64), but my friends had C64s. I was the only one I knew who ever did coding though. The C64s were still used lots, but just for games.
Sosh101 5y ago
Something between the MicroBit and the Pi would be great.
richardjdare 5y ago
I'd like to see such a device, but unlike the Pi, or specially contrived educational environments, the 8-bit home computers were the centre of a growing market for games and software, seemingly only a few steps away from your first attempts at working through the manual that came with your computer. This was a huge motivation for many of us who started programming in the home computer days. I remember games that had a note on the back of the box asking for programmers to send their work to the publisher's address for consideration. Magazines advertised commercial software obviously sold by one guy out of his house, and featured interviews with programmers who were only a few years older than me. If you owned a home computer and could program it, you imagined you could access this growing and exciting world, and maybe make some money.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Great points. The gap between the current crop of huge team produced eye candy infused games vs the machine they run on in its bare state is enormous. There are a few exceptions, but unfortunately they only serve to confirm the rule.

jarvist 5y ago

The Raspberry Pi 400 is basically this. https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/ https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-400/

zozbot234 5y ago
It's a very interesting device in a very Spectrum-like form factor. It also has its limitations, much like the Spectrum itself - you're not going to code comfortably in resource-intensive languages with it.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Then don't! Bloat is the moat were stuck in. An unsustainable sin, a cognitive load, too heavy to comprehend, a house of cards, the opposite of smarts.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's a feature.
Chris_Newton 5y ago
The 400 isn’t quite what I had in mind. I was thinking more of a device usable even by the under-10 group, with a simpler and more robust physical design and, crucially, the kind of instant-on, guided programming environment the early home “PCs” had. With early Sinclair systems, each key on the keyboard would act like modern auto-complete: you would start typing and keywords would appear almost magically. On the BBC Micro, you powered on and heard the trademark beeeeep-beep and were instantly presented with a prompt where you could start typing a program or other commands. Everything in those systems was geared towards immediate responses and inviting you to start programming them straight away.
- MrGilbert 5y ago
  I think I know what you are after - I wonder how much a TI-Nspire CX II-T could fill the gap, allowing for on-device python programming since 2020. OTH... Taking a RPI400, and build a stripped-down linux system which resembles Sinclair BASIC could prove to be a fun exercise. Edit: I just realized how expensive the ZX81 was here in Germany back in 1981 - it'd set you back 450€ by todays value.

dragonsky67 5y ago

TLDR - Kids who want to learn to program already have access to the tools to do this... It's just that most kids don't want to learn to program. Wasn't this what the One Laptop Per Child (OTLP) project was trying to achieve? The problem is that when the ZX, C64 etc were around there was no alternative. If you wanted to play games, you could either shell out for more hardware and purchase the games on disk or cartridge, or you could type them in from a magazine (several times) and hopefully save them to a cassette. These days, if you want to play a game, you reach for your phone and install a free one that is far more capable than anything you could develop yourself. The real trick would be to create a development environment that will run on a phone. Apple have gone somewhat down this path with their Swift Playgrounds and you could always work with Scratch and similar systems or you could even do something in html/javascript, but none of these really give the same imperative to learning how that the original home computers did. You really need a system that lets you develop a full program, share it with your friends and modify (and break) it. You know the reality is that we do have these systems, and kids that are interested in doing anything other than just playing games can access them with a minimum of problems. I wonder how many of those ZX Spectrums, C64 etc were given to kids, who on finding that they had to actually do some work to make them do anything useful relegated them to a shoebox under the TV. It is possible that for every positive story about "kid learns programming from ZX Spectrum" you would have a hundred stories of kid calling ZX Spectrum a piece of crap.

nanis 5y ago
> I wonder how many of those ZX Spectrums, C64 etc were given to kids, who on finding that they had to actually do some work to make them do anything useful relegated them to a shoebox under the TV. In my experience, that tended to happen more with the kids who got the C64s. Those were the ones with color TVs and Betamax at home, too.
- antod 5y ago
  I had a Spectrum (couldn't afford a C64), but my friends had C64s. I was the only one I knew who ever did coding though. The C64s were still used lots, but just for games.

Sosh101 5y ago

Something between the MicroBit and the Pi would be great.

richardjdare 5y ago

I'd like to see such a device, but unlike the Pi, or specially contrived educational environments, the 8-bit home computers were the centre of a growing market for games and software, seemingly only a few steps away from your first attempts at working through the manual that came with your computer. This was a huge motivation for many of us who started programming in the home computer days. I remember games that had a note on the back of the box asking for programmers to send their work to the publisher's address for consideration. Magazines advertised commercial software obviously sold by one guy out of his house, and featured interviews with programmers who were only a few years older than me. If you owned a home computer and could program it, you imagined you could access this growing and exciting world, and maybe make some money.

jacquesm 5y ago
Great points. The gap between the current crop of huge team produced eye candy infused games vs the machine they run on in its bare state is enormous. There are a few exceptions, but unfortunately they only serve to confirm the rule.